How did she come up with that name so fast?
Topics on the day include stand-up Oscar winners, how your ego would ever allow you to hire a writer, trolls vs. bad typists, boys in pink underwear, the beards bite back, taking stand up on the road vs. honing your skills at home, and can your town support a comedy club. The city that never…
Email: brianmcomedy@gmail.com
Nope… I meant exactly what I wrote.
Comics (or any other artist for that matter) who get emotionally attached to their work drive themselves crazy and usually end up stifling the creativity they are trying to nurture.
Create more… judge less.
Take care of the quantity and the QUALITY will take care of itself.
Since we’re done with the greatest jokes of all time, I’d like to suggest you take a look similar material at a video podcast called “Old Jews telling jokes”. It’s just old people telling telling old bar jokes. Hillarious.
Then I don’t know what to tell you Greg. Can you give me examples of comics who you think are great that aren’t emotionally attached to their work?
Actually, I’ll open it up further. Name ANY BUSINESS outside of fast food (talk about quality taking care of itself) where quantity over quality is a strong business model.
Greg – if you’re creating material that has no meaning to you, that’s the defintion of Hack to me. Sometimes it can be funny, but it’s got no depth and it’s really not interesting… keep in mind that you’re hearing this from “Jabba the Hack”, so I know of what I speak.
One of the issues this week was about what size town is required to support a comedy club… it’s pretty easy to find out… find any bar or restaurant with a karaoke or band stage and ask to use their room on the slowest night of the week. Bring some comics, have them bring some friends, vary the show week to week, buy a sandwich board to have a sign outside the place, put up flyers the days leading up to the show, promote on facebook, if it’s a small enough town ask the local paper to do a piece, etc. and within a few weeks you’ll know what the community will support.
I’ve had a lot of success just asking a restaurant owner if I can bring business to his establishment. Just be ready that if you don’t bring in more money then his electronic bull or DJ music, the experiment is over.
Just my $.02
Another question was if you should stay in a home club or do other things… we’ll I’ve emcee’d political fundraisers, jazz concerts and other non-traditional venues and I can tell you flat out, it really helps to keep you grounded. Nothing like trying to tell jokes to policy wonks, music lovers or homeless people in the park. Wow… it really reminds you of how much you suck with the audience is sober.
As for having writers, I totally understand it for televised hour specials. There’s no way HBO is going to turn on the cameras and trust that the comic is going to walk in with a solid hour at game time. I’m sure some do, but it’s really not much different than comics helping each other out with bits. They’re just getting paid. Besides, it’s probably the same group that the comic would be bantering with anyway.
Greg, are you Rip Taylor?
I do stupid one-liner jokes, and they are all my babies. I think that is the difference between someone who is able to move a paintbrush against a canvas and someone who paints – not to put myself on that pedestal by any means. Sure, you may make a swirl that looks like a Jackson Pollock after a million tries, but who cares? If you don’t feel personally let down after one of your jokes doesn’t go over, what is the drive to even bother to go back and work on it, or any other jokes for that matter?
I do agree that obsessing over minutae can stifle the creative process. You also don’t want to create something that is SO personal to you, that no one else can relate to it. But that doesn’t seem to be what Greg’s saying here. To say you shouldn’t be emotionally invested in your act doesn’t make sense to me on any level. Sorry Greg, I tried.
So, years ago, before I started doing stand up and was just thinking about it, I met a friend of a friend and told them I wanted to be a comic. He was like “Cool, my friend did that once at some open mic. He was pretty funny.” Then he told me one of the jokes his friend said at his one show, and it was indeed pretty funny. Years later, I would think about that joke every once in a while (last month was the most recent), and I would have to convince myself each time not to steal it. I was pretty sure the guy never did more than one show, but I simply couldn’t bring myself to do a joke that someone else thought of, even if the guy told it once at an open mic nine years ago.
Sure enough, that same joke was in Larry Reeb’s set on the last podcast (it was the wheelchair bit). I had never even heard of Larry Reeb before. Thank God I don’t steal jokes that I’m not emotionally invested in just to have more quantity over quality.
Totally agree with this week’s BTB that performing stand-up in a non-stand up location is usually doomed.
One of my early gigs was at a general open-mike for musicians, poets and comedians (with comics very much at the bottom of that pile.) I thought that performing some jokes between all the self-obsessed songwriters singing songs about dysfunctional childhoood and self mutilation and all the obsessed poets reading poems about dyfuctional childhood and self-mutilation would go down a treat, but the bohemian hipsters that made up the small sudience reacted to my comedy set like I was staging live cock-fights on stage or something.
It also didn’t help that the gig was in a vegetarian juice bar cafe and had no microphone. Every time I got to a punchline, I’d be drowned out by the juice extractor.
Sorry – rereading my comment makes me want to clarify: but no matter how I try to say it I sound more and more like a douche.
Ricardo – My last show was opening and intermission for a band at a bar. A band that no one really came to see. A few days earlier, there was an incredibly good open mic at the same venue. I think often it comes down to expectations of the room/crowd/venue.
My small home town of 15,000 people now has a regular comedy, only one show a fortnight though. They have recently launched a new acts night, it will be interesting to see how that goes. So far it has been successful, but depends on having at least one “tv” name per show. I remember its opening night in 2003, Flight of the Conchords performed. Complete sell out, great night and it looked positive for the future. The second night was a guy who had a bit part in a parody news show on RTÉ tv in Ireland with me in support. 12 people showed up. The 3rd night was another well known Irish comedian (David O’Doherty I think)and it was a sell out. Completely dependant on how many folks had heard of the headliner. Since then there have been good shows and bad, but the club has lasted 7 years (mostly due to the guy who owns the bar being a big comedy fan).
re: Greg
I was hoping it really was a typo but now that you’ve trolled again we know you’re “real”. Very exciting! Brian brings up a great question about businesses in relation to this – and it got me to thinking about a book I read recently by Seth Godin called “Linchpin” – I’d really, highly recommend it to anyone (especially if you have a day job). One of the things Godin brings up a city in China where most mass oil paintings are done. These people are PAINTERS not ARTISTS. Just about anyone can learn the mechanics of how to paint, but only some people can truly be artists – to create something that moves people… (there’s an interview about the concept and the book some of you may find interesting at http://mashable.com/2010/02/14/seth-godin-linchpin/).
The quantity over quality thing only works for things that DON’T MATTER (IMHO). WalMart – quantity over quality – but then again I don’t care if the 99 cent doohickey I can get 4000 more of breaks. It’s quantity. But art, which is what comedy is to me, IS about quality. Qualtiy is the only thing that, to me, is the measure of my success in comedy.
That’s not to say that writing 500 jokes won’t yield me quality, workable material – but I don’t tend to write that way. I don’t try to just write 500 things and 10 be good. I really want everything to be good (it won’t be, but hey)… and that’s why I only write about things I care about, I start with giving a shit, which makes it easier for me to come out with at least something good.
re: Clubs and City Size
Last September I started a comedy show at a local bar. I knew the managers really well and there’s not much opportunity out in the far west suburbs of Chicago. Oswego has 29k people according to our friends at Wikipedia. It’s not a college town. It’s about as far west suburbs of actual Chicago you can get. The demographic is mostly white and seems like a lot of families, but older with kids in college.
We have a room in the basement that used to be the building and zoning office. We can comfortably seat about 50 though one night we fit 83. We took a Tuesday as it was a slow night for the bar and it’s been widly successful. Oftentimes the comedy show (of which I get the door money at $3 a head for cover and the bar gets food and drink) saves their slow night. We average about 30-35 fans a night for the show which is a showcase setup: 1 host at 8 mins, 6 comics at 8 mins each and a closer at 20 minutes. We allow comics to sign up and we do the lineups a week in advance.
Our smallest crowd was the first ice storm of the year and 9 folks showed up. Our biggest crowd was 83. And we even did a special Valentine’s Day show (host, feature, headliner setup) and sold 40 tickets in just 2 weeks at $15 each (or dinner and show special price of $85 per couple).
To back up Brian’s comments about the crowd being comedy crowd, we have an 85% return rate. I’m anal about numbers, I track everything – but ~85% of the folks who come once, come back again. Each week we have approximately 15 regulars who book their tickets and reserve their seats (front rows) online. Which is awesome for me, as a producer. For comics though, it means that those who come back (we usually put comics up no more than once per month as we have about 35 comcis sign up for the 8 slots per week) have to work harder and come up with new material more often. It’s really the best of both worlds – great for comics who need opportunity beyond open mics where there isn’t much opporunity, and great for the local area where there’s not much to do.
I was worried at first about the success of the room (to me anything less than 20 fans isn’t successful), as ComedyComedy in Aurora is just about 10 mins away from Comedy Under The Tap – but our show setups are different, we don’t compete for crowds as our shows are on different days, and all in all, if we tried doing a weekend show setup (which we may do next fall), I honestly think we’d do very well even against ComedyComedy.
I think it also helps that the venue is extremely supportive of the comedy show. They promote it in their emails to customers, put it on the tabletops, and the staff, if not working, come out to the shows. It’s great. I really would encourage folks to produce a show/run a room/open a club – you will get 2x as much drama in your life, but it does have its benefits, too. And even at $3 a head, it’s a little extra money.
re: Open Mics
When I first started comedy I got on stage every moment I could. And I did comedy open mics a lot, but also did music open mics. They were GREAT for buildling a tough skin. They were GREAT for dealing with hecklers (or not dealing with them, which is sometimes smart). If you can get a laugh at a music open mic, it’s probably a good joke. Comedy open mics sometimes are too primed. I mean yeah, it’s a good feeling to get laughs, that’s why we do this, but you also have to build a thick skin.
There’s a couple local open mics here in Chicago that are too good. Everything anyone says (jokes or not) get laughs. There are some folks who ONLY do those rooms – and frankly, I think that’s unhealthy as a comic. Easy laughs feel good, yeah, but what do you really gain?
I think, at least for me, it’s important to get stage time anywhere and time you can. Diffferent crowds, different setups, different cities and venues. And it’s important to tape-every-set-ever. Video is great, but audio is good too. It’s really good to listen or watch back and evaluate how you did what you did, or did differently and how the crowd reacted. I wish comics did this more… I think comics are afraid of realizing that joke they wrote they are in love with isn’t really that good – and they stay married to it, holding it tightly to its death… I’ve been so guilty of that before – I would so fall in love with my joke I’d keep telling it even though I got no/very little response because I thought some way, some how, I’d be able to force a crowd to love it as much as I did.
I am so digressing (I’m on the train and thus have time to type)… I guess this leads me to something frustrating about myself – I need to do more open mics. I think that when comics start to get regular gigs or showcases, they stop doing the hard work of open mics which I think is truly where comedy happenes. I’m talking about myself too. But I make excuses. I get married to my jokes and I don’t have enough time to do open mics… and so I just get lazy and complacent and don’t have the same drive and strive to keep things fresh as I did when I started comedy a few years ago.
Anyhow, just some thoughts. Hope everyone is well. Except you, Greg. I hope you’re mediocre and disaffected.
“Ricardo – My last show was opening and intermission for a band at a bar. A band that no one really came to see. A few days earlier, there was an incredibly good open mic at the same venue. I think often it comes down to expectations of the room/crowd/venue.”
I totally agree Brian Piccolo, but I think it’s safe to say that stand-up comedy and live music are very difficult to successfully combine together on the same bill . I’m no body language professor, but performing stand-up to an audience who are standing up rather than seated rarely works.
I recently heard a hell gig story from a very successful UK comedian called Phil Jupitus who had the honour of being the MC at a charity gig headlined by The Who at The Royal Albert Hall. All he had to do was to tell some gags inbetween introducing all the bands , but the sheer waves of hateful heckles and abuse this guy recieved throughout the evening from a rowdy audience only there for loud rock music briefly made him consider giving up stand-up for good.
(Why watching stand-up only works when sitting down would make an interesting future BTB show theme)
Amelia: Fascinating post
To no one in particular: How much do other comics’ opinions effect your material? Obv it varies comic to comic, but is there an accepted normalcy in bouncing material off other comic buddies, adding tags, sort of working in cooperation to help each other? Would it be freaky for a guy you’re working with to bounce stuff off you, or is that typical?
Hey guys! I’m going to be posting this to the website tomorrow, but I wanted to put it on here a day early:
http://iacomedyfest.podbean.com/2010/03/28/episode-three-w-special-guest-judy-carter/
It’s my conversation with “The Comedy Bible” author Judy Carter. Nice lady.
*NOTE- Sorry about the sound quality during the actual interview; I don’t want to get into radio jargon with you guys, but for audio nerds out there: I saved the interview itself at a low bitrate, and then while re-formatting it I had to save it to double its bitrate (44.1), which of course augmented the sound and pretty much fucked shit up. But it’s still a really cool interview!
Leonardo:
Regarding bouncing ideas off other comics, I’ve personally gotten some of my best material using that process, especially when relaxing with some alcoholic beverages in the company of a group of comics after a gig together. The comedic invention that get riffed around whilst in the company of a bunch of post-gig slightly drunk stand-ups is like nothing else I’ve encountered.(The only problem is ownership when 3 of you help create a perfect gag between yourselves – who gets to perform that bit?)
The other thing is when one comic watches anothers set and approaches them after to suggest ” nice bit – but have you thought of saying this as well?” I’ve gotten some great gag suggestions of fellow acts that way, and have also given gags to other comics sets that got used too.
Re: other comics opinions
For me? Very little. I don’t seek out other comic opinions save a few comics/producers close to me. Not because we are friends but because I find them honest and wanting me to get better as a comic.
I also don’t ever give any advice unless asked. Since I started producing I’ve found that I think I have good advice to give – but I keep it to myself.
When it comes down to it I do comedy for one person, me. And I really, in most cases don’t care about what anyone else says. I know if a joke is good or not by response (and listening back to my tapes). But there are.a small few who I know only want me to get better, so I keep them close.
Comics who give advice are fine, but I know of a couple who seem to give advice after every comic’s set. There was one open mic that I was at where a few “veterans” were in the back of the room, taking notes on guys on-stage. I think it’s fine to give encouragement, and perhaps say “You should tighten that joke up” or “The premise is pretty convoluted,” but an incessant “This is how you should do THIS joke… this is how you should do THAT joke… Here’s a tag and it’s the only way you can make that joke work…” is so irritating it turns other guys off to talking with those comics at all.
I often get tags from other comics if they are friends and we are just joking around in general about a bit. Most of the time it’s pretty obvious whose joke it will be if it’s a bit that comes out of nowhere. I feel like someone will usually say “you should write that down, it’s funny,” rather than “can I have that one?”
I hate it when comics I don’t really know come up to me and start going into new bits, trying to disguise it as normal conversation. That’s the worst.
Amelia – I’m glad I’m not the only one who wrote an epic post because I was bored.
Update – I saw a guy do Larry Reeb’s wheelchair bit I talked about above at a show I was in last night. He also did a long Daniel Tosh joke, and a bit of Bill Hicks. I’m gonna see him at another show tonight, so I’m going to have to say something. And it’s not even a “just to let you know, that joke sounds a lot like something someone else has already done” situation. It’s a, “you totally took a two minute Daniel Tosh joke, changed three words, and presented it as your own, you’re not a comedian,” kind of situation.
I saw Brian at the LA Comedy Club yesterday. It was a good crowd for a Sunday and BMO did a excellent job.
A couple of random comments on recent BTB shows.
Reflecting back on a comment Brian made a few episodes ago about an older lady saying that ‘You all did a good job’ and Brian feeling like he was supposed to be some sort of messenger to all the comedians: From the outside as just a very casual comedy fan attending a show, I think the MC appears to be the most powerful person in the event. Yesterday, BMO was the one that held it all together with he and four others on the bill. The impression is almost that the MC assembled the show and may even own the success of the overall program and have a financial stake in the event. Perhaps even that the headline act would like to someday be an MC and have his/her ‘own’ show. This group of BTB listeners know that not to be true, but perhaps not the very infrequent audience member.
Its almost is as if the MC would most highly value the success of the overall show and, if they were funny in facilitating the event, it is a bonus. The listeners of this program know that the MC is just another role in the program, but for someone not as familiar, they might consider complimenting the MC on the success of the overall show the highest compliment the MC would like to receive.
With regard to Tony’s journey. It is very interesting and I certainly have no professional insight to offer. I would suggest one area for consideration though and that is the ‘Style’ or ‘Point of view’ that is a big part of the overall bit. Exaggerated examples are Rodney Dangerfield’s ‘I get shit on’ theme. Mitch H’s ‘I’m stoned and so I see things differently’ tone, Steven Wright’s ‘I’m living in an alternative universe’ feel or Jerry Sienfelds ‘If you look closely and think about it the world often doesn’t make sense’ approach. I may not have those right, but I think the point is overall personality and perspective are a big part of the act. Where will Tony be coming from.
One of the reasons I like Tony on TAI is that he does a great job at fairly, unbiasedly, and completely describing some ‘thing’ or ‘event’. It seems that may be something that he needs to be conscious of in his comedic presentations. That is to say he may have to let go of some accuracy, evenness and unbiasedness (things that seem to be part of his nature) in favour of amplification and exaggeration more often.
Just some thoughts intended to be helpful.
Kudos to Tony for his progress so far.
Hi all. It is with deep regret that I inform you that there will be no BTB this week. We’ll be back next week with another installment of Tony’s comedy workshop.
For all that are screaming for my sultry voice, I will the guest co-host of the Nobody Likes Onions Podcast tomorrow, where I plan to impart my usual grumpy bitching about comedy.
Hey bros and brosephs, there is an IAMA (question thread) that’s relevant to our interests going down right now:
(its Tim Mitchell)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/bk84s/by_request_iama_retired_comedian_i_worked/
Need some advice:
I recently got in good with a booking agent in DC named Curt. He’s runs the two best open mics in town, and they’re more like actual comedy gigs than sign-up mics. Instead of me emailing him and asking if he has any openings, he is now emailing me to see when I can play his rooms. I just booked five dates in May with him and a sixth paid feature slot.
The best part about this is that he’s already suggested me to other bookers for work. Most importantly, he dropped my name to Allison Jaffe, who manages the DC Improv. The Improv is the only actual comedy club in DC. This, plus the fact that it’s a favorite club among stand ups, means that A LOT of big names come through its doors, and Allison is the Gatekeeper. It’s a big big deal that someone suggested me as a good emcee.
Here’s where I need advice, but first I need to give you some backstory:
Allison (manager) emails Curt (booker) and basically says “Everyone I talk to says you have the best mics in town. I’m thinking of getting some new blood onstage at the Improv, and wanted to reward those people who are performing regularly at open mics with emcee work. Can we set some dates for me to come scout for talent?”
He writes back: “It would be tough for me to organize a show with all my favorites (She actually just wanted to come to a few regular shows, but I think he thought she wanted him to organize a special show with all his faves on it.)/i> Instead, I just cc’d the comics that I think would be great emcees for you. I rarely laugh at jokes anymore cause I’ve heard em all, but these guys still make me laugh.” Then he included me in the cc list, along with 6 other comics, which also how I learned about the correspondence.
My question:
Should I email the manager of the Improv and say, “Just to let you know, these are the dates I’ll be playing Curt’s shows if you want to come check me out.” or should I go so far as to find out when all the comics are booked on Curts shows and send an email with who’s going to be at what show? Would either of those options be too forward? Maybe I should just wait and see if she shows up at one of the shows I’m in? I don’t really like that idea, but I don’t want to screw anything up by contacting her directly. I’m worried that might be a bother.
What should I do?
Great question Bill. I had to record a day early so I won’t be able to address this tomorrow, but I’ll definitely touch on it next week.
In the interrim, you should ABSOLUTELY follow up with an email. Normally I wouldn’t advocate it. If you were just referred by a booker I think immediately following up is a mistake. When you’re over eager it can come off as annoying. But in this case, Allison specifically asked for some dates to come check out a show and Curt replied with something different. To follow up with a the response he was looking for just makes great sense.
Oh, and go ahead and don’t “reply to all” on that email. It will make Curt feel like you think he didn’t do a good job and open up a flood gate of trouble with the other comics on the list.
Hey guys! I’m going to be posting this to the website tomorrow, but I wanted to put it on here a day early:
http://iacomedyfest.podbean.com/2010/03/28/episode-three-w-special-guest-judy-carter/
It’s my conversation with “The Comedy Bible” author Judy Carter. Nice lady.
*NOTE- Sorry about the sound quality during the actual interview; I don’t want to get into radio jargon with you guys, but for audio nerds out there: I saved the interview itself at a low bitrate, and then while re-formatting it I had to save it to double its bitrate (44.1), which of course augmented the sound and pretty much fucked shit up. But it’s still a really cool interview!