I’m telling you, it’s fun to say.
Topics on the day include Las Comic Standing conspiricies, should you keep trying out jokes that don’t work or is it one and done, Brian doesn’t share any writing techniques, and who is worse, people who teach comedy classes or Hitler. Seriously dude, put your nuts away.
Comedian of the week – Dov Davidoff: The Point Is [Explicit]
Email: brianmcomedy@gmail.com
I think most people who teach comedy classes are A) egotistical fucks and B) idiots. Also C) wrong in their opinions on comedy.
Sums it up nicely. Also, have you noticed that .000001% of the people who teach these classes are actually successful comics? I guess the old adage is true: Those who can do, those who can’t teach. And those who can’t teach run stand up comedy workshops.
I can’t think of anything someone can teach you about comedy that you can’t learn by doing it. A writing workshop or brainstorming session might be useful, but even then you’re subjected to how others would do your material. Most comics would agree, I think, that it takes at least 5 years to even begin to find your own voice and style, etc., Until then, you’re pretty much learning how to be comfortable on stage, deal with different crowds, crowd sizes, and a host of other things.
And so much goes into it besides just the material. How you dress, how you present yourself, how you use the stage, the mike, all that. How can that be taught?
I will say this about writing… I know comics who have been at it a while, and are funny guys, who struggle to develop much new material because of one elementary hang-up: whenever they sit down to write, they want a finished bit on draft #1.
It doesn’t matter if you write comedy, screenplays, novels, or assignments for freshman comp (which I teach as my day job), the approach is essentially the same: write a lot and don’t worry about the final product at first. Most of us end up tossing – or at least completely rethinking – more than half of what we put to paper or try on stage, especially during the first few years. If you only write when you think you have a workable idea and give up when it doesn’t shape up into comedy gold right away, that’s a slow hard road.
Personally, I try to write every day about whatever subject interests me at the moment, and I don’t worry too much if I don’t find the funny immediately. I’d rather toss 90% of a hundred-page notebook than 90% of a few lines I jot down only when I’m “inspired.”
Inspiration is for kids who write shitty emo/goth poetry.
A brainstorming session is borderline procrastination to me. I’ve been in brainstorming sessions, and I feel like they serve one useful purpose: they get your creative juices flowing so you start thinking in a funny, creative and skewed way. I’ve thought up more material immediately AFTER brainstorming sessions or writers’ workshops than I have ever thought of during the actual sessions.
Stage time is the best workshop imaginable.
Great call Dan. I think that’s also the reason that so many comic’s jokes start to sound the same over time. They come up with a formula that works, and rather than doing the hard work and breaking out, really trying new things, they just start writing variation of the same joke. I’ve definitely been guilty of that.
My thoughts on Doug Stanhope’s comedy death camp:
(disclaimer : I’m new to standup, it’s quite possible that I’m full of shit)
Although I’ve been tempted to sign up for a stand up class, I’ve never actually taken one. I’ve done a lot of reading about the comics I look up to like Patton Oswalt, Carlin and Seinfeld said they were a waste of time, money and talent so I never took one.
It occurred to me pretty early on in the writing process, that writing a joke is taking something that you do naturally every day at random times and artificially harnessing that funny part of you to write a joke. I don’t really know how to do that yet, and I’m pretty damn sure that there’s not one person on the planet that can teach me that. When it comes right down to it, if you want to succeed at stand up (or anything really) you have to learn to discipline yourself to carry something out to your full potential.
The whole standup comedy class reminded me about a documentary I saw on CBC awhile back called “Cracking Up” about a social worker that teaches standup comedy as a form of therapy for the mentally ill.
There are people that want to try standup not because they want to make a career out of it, but because they might have their own personal reasons for wanting to give it a shot. I think for those that want this casual standup experience, a class might be a good way to go. However, if you want to pursue a career/hobby in standup the only way to do it is to get your ass to work, put your nuts on and go onstage.
First time post.
I’ve just started doing stand-up and did a one day course before getting on stage because I didn’t feel confident enough to just get on stage. I found the course useful because I wasn’t expecting it to teach me how to be funny. I met some great people who were in the same position as me and we all got to do the same gig together the following week. I’m so glad that was my first gig, otherwise I’d have probably gone straight on at a gong show, stuttered my way through till I was put out of my misery, and never done stand-up again. Of course, that happened as soon as I did a gong show but I’ve got the positive first experience to fall back on.
My course was in England though, and the guy was acutely embarrassed at being a stand-up teacher. I don’t imagine anyone teaching comedy in the states would be so apologetic about it.
Great post James T and welcome to the blog-style comedy thread!
I definitely think there’s a difference between US and UK stand-up that would allow a reality show like Comedy Boot Camp to be made in Britain.
(Not to say we haven’t imported too many of our own crappy reality shows to the rest of the world)
The stand-up scene seems much more competitive and hard-edged in the States, whereas British stand-ups seems more relaxed and whimsical in comparison, so I don’t think the gung-ho approach would work over here in Blighty.
(What I’m trying to say is I can’t picture Eddie Izzard in army fatigues presenting Comedy Territorial Army on the BBC anytime soon – though nothing suprises me anymore)
I know this is going to sound ass-kissy, but screw it, I would like to say while the podcast is going through a bit of a transition what I have enjoyed most about this podcast…
I have a 12 year old son who is severely autistic. Obviously I love him dearly, but my role as a parent is complicated. He really will always need either my wife or myself at his side at all times when not in school. I arrive at my Monday morning gig and really don’t return home until Friday 10pm.
If there was one thing that I think would really relieve a lot that’s on my mind, it would be a hobby. And I think open miking would just be a blast. But I just can’t get that kind of time away from my wife and kid, even though it might only be an hour or two.
BTB has for many many months given me an outlet to put forth little jokes and whatever and get a reaction from people who are in the biz. That’s what most of you are to me, and probably better critics than anybody who would show up to do an open mike in Punta Gorda, Florida. That’s not a knock on the town (Avg. Age of Resident=72.5 yrs.)
So I love it when B-mo played a joke I called in and would react to it. Occasionally there would be a mention of it here on the boards. To me that might be as close as I’m gonna get, and so thanks to Brian and everyone else here on the boards.For selfish reasons I hope for many more episodes in the future.
And now, with a flourish, is my latest bit:
I was not really a “rugged” kid. You know the ones I mean. Those kids that couldn’t WAIT at recess or gym class for those games where they would just come smashing as hard as they could into the pile of other children like Laurence Taylor just as hard as they could possibly could, three or four other kids, now they gotta go see the nurse.…man, I hated those kids. Too fucking rugged.
I wanted to add that the environment here has provided that safety net that was described that comedy classes provide, sort of softer than the real world.
“My course was in England though, and the guy was acutely embarrassed at being a stand-up teacher. I don’t imagine anyone teaching comedy in the states would be so apologetic about it.”
As I think the kids say now…POY
post of the year. I laughed HARD at this line.
Hey, I don’t know if any one remembers me. I made a couple of comments a year and a half ago when I was doing open mics and listened to this podcast… a lot… maybe too much. I went on a sort of hiatus in comedy, but now I’m back… and listening to this podcast again.
I’ve just done a duce of 10 min sets at open mics the last two weeks. But these were music/poetry/comedy open mics… outside on the street. A very strange experience…
Anyways, I did one of those ‘comedy college’ things. It was a waste of money. It didn’t teach me how to be funny, at all. In fact the teacher sort of tried to put his own spin on my sense of humor… turn it into more of a ’standard’ comic. However it was worthwhile, in that it forced me to actually sit down and write material and bring it to ‘class’. It got me to actually realize that I am funny enough to do stand-up. He connected me with some open mics which got this whole ball rolling.
The problem with comedy classes seems to be the expectation. I wouldn’t take a 2-day tennis course and expect to go pro within a few weeks, and I wouldn’t skip out on a 2-day tennis course because no one famous had come out of one. You can’t teach funny, but you can teach basic technique and give a safe stage to take baby steps on. A lot of them are ridiculously overpriced and useless, but you should know going in that they will have very limited potential.
This made me think though, I know that a lot of corporations hire improv troupes to teach management seminars to boost teamwork, morale, blah blah blah. Does anyone do that with stand up? That would be a good racket, and you wouldn’t be a douchebag for teaching a useless class because it’s a corporation paying for it. Anyone heard of this?
Welcome back Marty. I think you made a great point about comedy teachers putting their spn on your material. It all goes back to you can’t teach funny. I know how I write jokes that make people laugh, but so much of that is based on my personality, stage presence, delivery, etc. But it’s the only way I know how to do it. So if I tried to teach someone comedy, it’s the only thing I could fall back on as a tool.
Richard – The only thing I’ve ever heard of like this is comedy driving school. I guess people pay extra to suffer through mandatory defensive driving classes if they think they’ll get a few yuks out of it. Seems like a lot of pressure to me. It’s not exactly the most hilarious subject matter, plus I wouldn’t want to do an 8 hour set on one topic starting at 8 AM.
Finally, anyone catch Last Comic Standing last night. I guess I’m happy that the 3 best comics are still alive (Roy Wood Jr, Tommy Jonigan, Myq Kaplan), but again, they can’t seem to get this show over fast enough. They jjust whittled it down to 5 and next week is already the finale.
So is it considered joke stealing if the joke is different, but the punch line is exactly the same? I came up with this joke much in the style of Mitch Hedberg (which is kind of my natural style anyways)
Packages of tomato seeds should say: all you can eat…. some assembly required.
And it’s gnawing on my brain, remembering that Mitch Hedberg has a joke with the exact same punch line. Here is his joke: I eat a lot of sandwiches and sometimes I don’t want a sandwich; that’s when I realize that everything’s a sandwich. Like I ordered a salad and they brought me a plate with lettuce, cheese, bacon bits and croutons–it’s a sandwich, some assembly required.
So what is the comic etiquette on something like this? I want to steer it into a deconstruction of the phrase “some assembly required.” but as it stands it almost feels like I’m stealing a joke… but not really.
Marty: I can’t think of the specific comics or jokes, but I’m certain Hedberg wasn’t the first one to put “some assembly required” at the end of one.
Your (potential) problem is that your bit is also about food, and Hedberg is revered. But I think the line, “Every pack of seeds should say ALL YOU CAN EAT,” is good enough on its own.
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Hey Marty,
You and Dan reminded me of a book I read called “Stop me if you’ve heard this A history and philosophy of jokes” by jim holt. In it he talks about how some jokes can be traced back hundreds of years (although they might changed a little bit from generation to generation). It may be very possible that every joke ever written was done before by somebody else.
When I did my first open mic I was agonizing over one setup that used the words ’sexy job interview” and Seinfeld in one of his jokes used the same 3 words.
I felt like there was a world of difference between my joke and his joke, but still I was in complete agony because I was worried that someone would know his joke and think I was a crook. Eventually I just figured out I could replace the word sexy with another funnier word (well I thought it was funnier) and it worked out ok.
Marty, I think your joke is sufficiently different to use it, in fact you really can have some with warning labels as a tag. Some things that pooped in to my mind when reading the joke were:
“All you can eat, actual results may vary” (think Adam Hills does this one though.
“All you can eat, for external use only” (as in it has to be planted outside, yes, no?
“All you can eat, willpower required”
No best before date, it does say “best after a warm summer” though.
Just go to your local pharmacy and read the back of every box you can find, you’ll get the perfect punchline in no time.
Pooped into my mind, if that isn’t a Freudian slip I don’t know what is.
To add to the “Can’t end fast enough” aspect of LCS, now they roll out Ron White to keep you tuned in until the end? That seems like an insult to the comics remaining. Would it be tough on these guys to add a few more minutes to their sets? Or would having the material to do that be tough? These guys all seem very seasoned, but my perspective is skewed after Brian mentioned Dat Phan and his success with very little material. And the women judge even made a comment about trying to raise the ratings…
Brian, we’ve heard your thoughts on Last Comic Standing, but I was wondering what you think of that new show Louie (starring Louis CK)? I think it’s a big improvement over Lucky Louis, really funny and with a lot of great insight into the life of a stand-up both on and off-stage.
I can’t believe I haven’t mentioed Louis yet! Thanks for the reminder Dave.
I love it. Agree with you on lucky Louis. It was funny, but almost over the top, and I’m not a guy who believes that exists most of the time. Louis is perfect. I love the shots of him performing at the Cellar. Not like those canned bits they used to do on Seinfeld, but more real and raw. The plot lines and writing are great, and the fact that it’s on regular cable (FX) makes it better, because it reminds you that there is a boundry that he continues pushing in every episode. I really hope people are checking it out.
Wow, Louie is a great show. I just watched the 6 episodes on Hulu. I wasn’t even aware of it… I don’t watch cable or broadcast TV… but I do enjoy a great TV show.
My favorite part is when he destroys the girl interrupting his show.
Dan T: yeah I was thinking that too… it’s probably a pretty common tag/punchline.
The Kyle Beetis: interesting book you got there… I have a pretty analytical mind… and sometimes I want to analyse comedy… but I hold back because I feel like it could take the fun out of comedy.
Brian C: That’s probably a good way to come up with material in general… just read the labels for things.
Finally back on the thread – Thank you brian for addressing my questions and welcoming me into the fold. And for making another fabulous podcast.
To chime in the whole class thing, I’ve had two comedy class experiences – one good, one bad.
The first class (the good one) I literally started form square one, and it went great. I finished, started gigging, but then went to graduate school and my focus naturally shifted to school.
The best part of the class from my experience is that, for absolute beginners, a class might help you write those couple of golden nuggets that you keep in your act well after the class ends. This is great because you have an opener and closer that you would have never thought of. Instead of shooting the shit with friends and writing what you say down, a class makes it “homework”, the stresses of which create a different mental paradigm that makes you think in new ways. Also having a killer opener and closer does a lot of of footwork for your other jokes early on.
The last class I took I actually didn’t end up paying for because of a computer glitch, which is great because it ended up being a huuuuge waste of time.
I little bit wiser about the whole class thing this time around, I saw that it was only scratching the surface of the rigor it takes to write and perform and I think you should really demand a lot more from a class or an instructor, since comedy is (pardon the corny joke) a serious art form.
Also, -and this pissed me off the most- the teacher was trying to put his particular spin on your work. My class was run by a gay impressionist so you can imagine how off-putting it is when he tells you to to be “more cutesy” with your punch because it provides a bigger reversal.
Another thing he did was make us say adjectives about ourselves, which he then refereed back to throughout the course as a way to pigeonhole us into comic types and in some ways fast-track us to finding our voice. complete bullshit.
that’s the good and the bad.
Check out our Festival flier!
http://iacomedyfest.wordpress.com/2010/08/17/comedy-festival-flier/
Hy Guys…
I working on a new project, and I’m hoping to get some help from y’all. I’ve got a friend who runs chucklemonkey.com and his list of clubs, open mics and festivals is somewhat dated. I’m helping to bring it up to date, and it would really help to have people in different parts of the country who are going to clubs, open mics and comedy performance spots so I can get the right info out.
The idea is to have a comprehensive list of where you can get stage time anywhere in the country… It’s a daunting task, and I could use the help… and I think it’s something that will benefit all of us.
By the way, I’m starting in Nevada, so Brian… you should already have an email in your box…
Thanks…
— Dennis Laganiere
dennis@laganiere.net
dl@chucklemonkey.com