George Carlin R.I.P.
June 26, 2008 · Print This Article
A comedy legend died this week, and everyone who has ever laughed at a stand up comic owes a debt of gratitude to George Carlin.
As Brian works on a tribute, BTB must go on, and luckily Mike, the Simon Cowell of stand up is around to spead some levity. He analyzes the recent Dana Carvey special, and rehashes his 10 worst comics of all time list, this time with a controversial new edition.
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The Lewis Black pick is ridiculous. I saw him in concert in ‘07 and he was excellent. Side ventures he does to make money shouldn’t be counted against him, and I can’t think of a single comic (particularly one with the body of work of Black) who should be/ever has been considered a failure based on five minutes of new material.
ok god knows i cant agree with the lewis black pick. But…i think I know what show Mike was talking about and i gotta admit it was a horrible set. but one bad set is no reason to label a guy your number 1 worst comic. although mike said he will maybe improve and i have no doubt that he will.
I also don’t agree with the Lewis Black choice, but a person’s individual choice for either best or worst comedian is really idiosyncratic. The thing about Mr. Black is that he puts out sooooo much material that some of it is bound to miss the mark a bit. (Or a lot.)
Also, another place to see whole episodes of the Dana Carvey Show are on Hulu. It’s at http://www.hulu.com/the-dana-carvey-show
There are commercials, however.
I agree that Lewis Black is horrible but I would’nt put it number one as the worst. I never really got the act of Lewis Black, to me he’s a screaming jokeless poor comedian. Screaming and shaking is really that funny?!… well not for me but I understand that a lot of people love and respect him so I can’t put him on a list of the worst of all time when a guy like Cedric the entertainer walks the planet.
To me the fourth best to me would be Bill Hicks. He had it all. The delivery, the jokes, the fuck you attitude, the physical act. When you talk about intelligent wise comic with a unique insight, you’re talking about Hicks. A lot of Carlin stuff was inspired by Hicks (I don’t mean lifted), Hicks made Carlin work harder in my opinion.
To me he’s the best of all time but the fourth most important of all time
I agree with Guillaume that, for me, my 4th Mt. Rushmore comedian would be Bill Hicks.
Funny? Check. Timeless? Half of his jokes were about the late ’80s/early ’90s political scene, but they still sound as fresh and relevant today as they did then. Influential? I’d call him the Godfather of the whole alt-comedy scene… meaning people like Dave Attell and Patton Oswalt and David Cross and Brian Posehn and Janeane Garafalo, that set. The original guy who’d get up on stage and, well, he didn’t PRETEND not to give a shit, he really didn’t give a shit. He was the first comedian I ever saw who didn’t suck up to the audience, but he wasn’t automatically antagonistic to them (he could certainly get to that point, but it wasn’t his default). And, as a guy who grew up watching the Jerry Seinfelds and Tim Allens and — yes — Bill Bellamys of the world in the ’80s, he was a comic that came along and 100% changed the way I think about and appreciate comedy. I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say he influenced the likes of Carlin, but there have certainly been few comics to follow Hicks who weren’t influenced in some way.
Carlin: I saw him last year for the first (and sadly, last) time, despite his having been a favorite of mine from television for many years. He played a small theater and completely killed. One of the most impressive things about the show, I thought, was that there was no sort of traditional opening act… there was this musician who played blues songs on his accoustic and, while he was kinda funny and engaging between songs, he certainly wasn’t coming close to doing musical comedy. Then there was a 20 minute break, and Carlin walked out on the stage cold and nailed our asses to the wall. He also gave us a little insight into his writing process… he actually had notes on a little stool beside him on stage, which shocked me at first for such a seasoned pro, but they were really just little reminders of bits he was working out. He told us that his process was to write jokes every day, tour with them and work them out on stage all year, and then at the end of the year that would become his annual HBO special. It’s a real testament to how ingenious the guy was that he could be that prolific and still be that hilarious with about 90% of the jokes he ever told on stage.
Lewis Black: I can see someone not being a fan… I can even go with calling him over-rated… but tied for worst of all time with Dane Cook? That’s borderline retarded. I hope Mike was wearing a helmet when he said that, because the short bus is on its way to take him to comedy school.
Dana Carvey: I watched his latest last night just so I could enjoy this latest BTB today. I really enjoyed it… ok, here’s the thing with me, I hate when comedians who do voices. I alluded to this in an earlier post with Jim Breuer… it just turns me off when the punchline is “Hey, he sounds like this other guy!” or “Hey, yeah, that IS an impersonation of a really bad ethnic stereotype!” But the thing with Carvey is that he turns me off by starting into that, and then wins me back by making it brilliant. Case in point: the Indian doctor bit. He started doing the Indian voice and I was going “Really? We’re doing this?” But by the end I was laughing out loud, and it’s because the voice wasn’t the punchline, it just added extra color to the jokes he was saying. He wasn’t going on about running a convenience store or praying to Vishnu, he making jokes about what a doctor might say to you (”Your arteries are as clogged as a port-a-potty at a biker rally”) that would have been funny without the voice, but were enhanced by it. Same thing with the political impressions… when he started doing Reagan I was thinking “Oh man, this is gonna tank fast, that guy hasn’t been president in 20 years and he’s been dead for like 5.” But he came up with this ingenious scenario with the Reagan oracle that allowed him to incorporate all those old favorites from a fresh and relevant perspective, and completely won me over with what I thought was a fantastic extended comedy bit. I think B+/A- is a very fair grade.
I spoke to Mike about Lewis Black. He told me that he intended Lewis to be an honorable mention to the top 10 list in general, but forgot to mention him at the beginning, so he thought he would pull an audible and tack him on at #1. Still no excuse as I don’t think he belongs anywhere near the list, but that was Mike’s explanation.
Is it not possible Lewis made an ill-advised attempt to try out some new material on late-night TV? Maybe he just didn’t have it honed yet?
I’d have to agree with Hicks at #4 after Bruce, Pryor and Carlin. Seems to me that he influenced as many people as the other three. I like Cosby but he is pretty much an old school comedian in that I could see someone doing Cosby’s material in the era prior to Lenny Bruce. His material was great but I can’t see that he really pushed the envelope with his act.
I’m not even mad at Mike for the Lewis Black thing. But why does he keep saying the word “cornball”? Saying the word cornball, is cornball.
The fourth face would have to be Samuel Clemens, Mark Twain. He did humorous lectures in the late 1800s that planted the seeds for comedy as we know it today. Talk about old school, right? This predates vaudeville. We’re talking about the guy who may have influenced Bob Hope or Jack Benny. Truly one of the best American humorists. Period.
Bill Hicks is like the FDR of Mount Rushmore for me. He’s great–fantastic even–no doubt. But he came a little late in the game in relation to some others.
I actually agree with Mike about Lewis Black. His crappy cue-card reading and knowing looks at the camera ruined “History of the Joke” for me, and the richer he gets, the less seriously I take his middle-aged white guy rage. The richer he gets, the less seriously he takes it, which is why it doesn’t work so well for him anymore.
Also, I’m racist, kay?
my four: pryor, bruce, hicks, andy kaufman. i can defend myself, or i can dive behind some debris for cover, haha. i think each of these comedians (kaufman was certainly a comedian among other things) opened up comedy for completely new types of acts to follow them.
two quick other podcast-type things that people here might find “interesting.” there’s a podcast called Nobody Likes Onions, starring several working (and seemingly successful) standups who did a different sort of tribute to carlin (those still mourning carlin might want to wait a while)… to put it simply, carlin won’t be appearing on the top ten of these guys’. The show is generally pretty funny, often crosses my personal comfort line, but mayyybe they had some points. you can check it out, i *think* it was episode 313 (maybe 314) at http://www.nobodylikesonions.com. Did anyone else hear this? I’m curious what you thought.
another silly little thing that i’ll mention quickly, inspired by brian and others a pal and i have been putting out a comedy podcast where we interview and play with local (vancouver) comedians. the show comes out every monday, so we shouldn’t be taking any stage (pod?) time away from brian… last week was episode one of a two-part episode with local funnyman adam pateman, and we had some great times. you can check it out at http://feeds.feedburner.com/TheExplodingSandwich
sorry to whore out my link, but whorin’ dies hard. what?
Hey B-Mo
Before you do the Carlin tribute show, have you seen this news story?
“Far-right religious zealots are to picket George Carlin’s funeral in protest at his atheism and bad language.
The Westboro Church, which is infamous for protesting at the funerals of American troops, has issued a press release headlined: ‘God Killed Potty-Mouth Comedian George Carlin And Cast Him Into Hell.’
Amid many biblical quotes, the fundamentalists said: ‘George Carlin - the filthy blasphemer - the obscene potty-mouth skeptic, agnostic, and profane atheist - who had nothing but disdain for God and the Bible all the days of his tragic life - is now, at this minute and for ever writhing and screaming in exquisite pain pleading for mercy from that God he flipped off while performing for HBO for lucre.
‘Carlin made lots of money making fun of God; now he must deal with God - face to face - for ever.’
The church also claimed that ‘fellow filth-monger Jerry Seinfeld’, was an‘antichristic American loudmouth’ who would also be tormented in hell. Seinfeld was among those who paid tribute to Carlin after his death last weekend at the age of 71.
Carlin’s funeral arrangements have not yet been announced.
Westboro Church – whose website is godhatesfags.com – protests at military funerals because it believes troops’ deaths are God’s vengeance for America’s tolerance of homosexuality.
Last year, the church, set up by Fred Phelps and his two daughters, was ordered to pay almost $11million in damages and compensation .”
.
..plus I also agree with Charles that Bill Hicks should be the 4th head on The Mount Rushmore of American Comedy.
If Lenny Bruce is the George Washington of stand-up comedy, George Carlin is Jefferson, Richard Pryor is Lincoln, and Hicks is Roosevelt.
(sorry for such corny metaphors, but one is rather limted by the Rushmore/presidential theme!)
The God’s hate fags people are the single most disgusting humans on the planet. They make me hope there is a God that will judge and condemn them .
Agreed.
It’s so damn easy to pick holes in these idiot’s theology too, especially when they describe Carlin as “the obscene potty-mouth skeptic, agnostic, and profane atheist ”
WOAH. Accusing someone of being both an Athiest AND an Agnostic? One disbelieves in God , the other neither believes or disbelieves. I know these morons think it both the same, but there is a difference. If i as an Agnostic can at least learn the difference between a Protestant and a Catholic, it’s a pity these bigots can’t turn the other cheek and do the same.
Umm…
Actually, Ricardo, Theodore Roosevelt is the 4th face of Mt. Rushmore, not Franklin Delano Roosevelt. FDR was the President that got America out of the Great Depression with the two New Deals, during the 1930’s, also the President to declare war on the Axis Powers in WW2, and the Persident with the longest time in office (elected 4 times, serving 13 years, dying of polio on the first year of his fourth term).
Theodore “Teddy” Roosevelt, FDR’s uncle, was the President during the turn of the century. More importantly, he was the Secretary of the Navy when he resigned his post to go fight with the calvary in the Spanish-American War. He was the Vice President under William McKinley when McKinley was shot, and Teddy Roosevelt became President. He’s on Mt. Rushmore as the fourth face because, besides being a simply fantastic person, he started the National Parks movement, preserving parts of America from development and industrialization, and he expanded the powers of the Presidental office (which may be a good or bad thing, yet to be decided). Plus, he was the first President of what some call the American Empire.
The parallel that I was making was that Bill Hicks should NOT be on the Mount Rushmore of comedy because he came too late. FDR, while an excellent President–clearly one of the best, came too late to get himself on the mountain. The Presidents on Mount Rushmore weren’t alive during America’s “golden age,” they built up to it. They were the reasons for it.
If anything, Mark Twain should be the George Washington of Mount Rushmore, since he came first. But really, that’s a flimsy parallel at best.
Comedy Rushmore heads: Richard Pyror, Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, Mark Twain.
I apologize for the length.
man, normally when i read some idiotic church statement like that I just luagh at it. but when i read that i uncharestically got really angry. and its funny…I have plenty of freinds who are very religous and they loved carlin just as much as i do. hell i have a freind who has practically memorized the bible and he has the dirtiest sense of humor i have ever heard. But these fuckers, they are on a complete different spectrum of dumbassery. plus i think god has more important things to do then condemn comedians. and seinfeld? really?
just got done with these fuckers and the fuck if theyre not a cult
I think there should be a law that murder is ok as long as the person you murder is in the process of picketing a funeral.
Common. Trash.
On a slightly less douchey note, but still really shitty, Comedy Central apparently felt that they couldn’t interrupt their Harold and Kumar movie marathon to do any kind of tribute to Carlin. I’m tossing them into the common trash pile as well.
Man, this is awesome. This funeral picketing is the sort of thing that should happen to Carlin; fuck good taste, this is funny, controversial and makes the other side look like jack asses. That is a Carlin phenomenon.
did i screw up posting my last message, or did it not go through because i posted multiple URLs in it?
anyway, very long story short, four heads are pryor, bruce, andy kaufman, perhaps bill hicks (but that fourth is super hard to decide…)
must’ve been my fault last go, so i’ll rehash the details (skip if you wanna!).
kaufman because, along with the other three, he opened up a billion new possibilities for new comics to pursue. better or worse i suppose.
i wonder if anyone heard the Nobody Likes Onions “tribute” (hard quotes there) to Carlin. If anyone is still grieving, perhaps not the best thing to listen to. but some interesting points… i think perhaps my personal view lies somewhere between theirs and brian’s. Carlin is abso-fuckin-lutely a comedy legend and contributed an amazing amount to the genre: does that give him carte blanche on doing horrible material? i dunno either way, just a question…
(and finally, although i’m super shy, i originally got up the courage to pimp my brand new podcast The Exploding Sandwich at http://feeds.feedburner.com/TheExplodingSandwich in some sort of related way that no longer makes sense. we talk with Vancouver-area comedians about comedy in general, it might be sorta related of interest to comedy fans?)
I know a lot of people weren’t in to Carlin, and I have even been critical saying his last 5 years (before the final special) were more about angry whining than being funny, but having some bad material doesn’t change what he did. Most comics will only write 3-4 hours of original material in their career (some way less than that), and of that material there will be many bits that are just awful. Carlin created 10 times that material, all original, and while some bits fell flat, many more were amazing. Just my take, of course.
you know i think you might be right sando
I’ve suddenly changed my mind about the stand-up comedian Mount Rushmore sculpture:
Bruce.
Pryor.
Carlin.
and on the 4th head, Rich Little impersonating Danny De Vito.
.
Hey this is completely off topic, but I know that a btb book club type thing has been done before, and I was wondering if anyone would like to read Ian Cognito’s A Comedians Tale?
http://www.iancognito.com/tale.asp It’s free and only about 90 pages long. When I first read it, something like three years ago, it blew my mind in a little way… more like a fire cracker than a stick of tnt, but you can still lose a finger, yeah? I’ve never really found anyone else who has looked at it besides the three guys on chortle who originally linked it.
Any of you guys interested?
What the hell? My class isn’t valid? If I use a comedian in my class, it doesn’t mean anything? Just because someone used Bill Cosby’s birth routine in a birthing class doesn’t make it legit. I guess that means AA meetings should start showing Ron White drinking on stage? Would that validate him?
I would say using a comedian in a COMEDY class makes him more valid, because the material is good enough to make the curriculum.
I just think you’re pissed because I’ve never asked for one of your CDs to use in the class.
OK, sarcastic rant off.
looking forward to the carlin tribute, brian!
Yeah Brian. Looking. Forward. to. Oh post already, i’m way too ADD to wait the extra time it’ll takefor you to post! Gargh, where is my red bull and ritalin?!