Class Is In Session
March 13, 2008 · Print This Article
So we’ve all heard Brian bitch about comedy classes and how you can’t learn comedy from a book. But what if comedy class could help you earn a college degree? Brian is joined by Steven Chappell, a college professor who is striving to teach that comedy is not necessarily just a laughing matter.
Email: brianmcomedy@gmail.com and give us a call on 206-203-4692
Brian… Jus’ a bit of advice… your wife may not want the people she works with to know she’s job hunting rather then planning to return to the job they’ve been legally forced to keep open for her these last three months. Nobody wants to know they’re the fall-back second choice. Just sayin’.
— D
I know Brian said The Professor posted his reading list previously, but is it possible to get it again in this show comments?
Thanks…
— D
On older stnad ups retiring im going to throw out something i read on punchlinemagazine about a month ago about george lopez retiring at 55. i think this just goes to show how impressive carlins longevity really is.
Greeting from Austin.
Hi, B-mo and the rest. This is my first post, I’m one of those listeners in the background that Brian complains about, big fan of BTB, and TAI too.
So here the some news: SXSW @ Austin TX, is the biggest “indie” festival in the world, and this year they are including comedy. 1500 bands plus about 20 comedian. SXSW is mostly indie bands trying to get a deal, but they also include some big names like REM.
For comedy this year are:
Janeane Garofalo, Todd Barry, Eugene Mirman, Brian Posehn, and I heard that Mike “Biggs” is also around town.
This is the first year they are doing comedy, so it’s an interesting thing to see how people respond, but meanwhile, I’ll suggest to start preparing demos and start sending them to SXSW, maybe some of you can come next year.
Later.
Oh, also and this will probably be it, but its time for some half assed reviews. HOORAY.
first up lewis blacks: Root of all evil. ok as some of you may know i have a hetero man crush on lewis black, it helps that i made him luagh when i met him and his opener john bowman after a show he did in trenton and said i was “a funny guy”. that has nothing to do with anything but I have a massive ego. anyway…The root of evil has black as a judge handing down the verdict on who or what is the root of all evil. the first episode had oprah goin against the catholic church. trying to sway judge black are two comics giving there points on why there “client” is the root of all evil. this week it was comedians Paul F. Tompkins and greg Giraldo. two very underrated comics who did a great job at proving there points. my favorite segment of the show was the ripple of evil, an overtop warning about what would happen if there evil were to be left unchecked. overall it was solid but with a few minor problems that will hopefully be fixed in the coming weeks. and like i always say, theres no such thing as to much black.
and secondly i justgot done with the book Comedy at the Edge by richard zoglin. zoglin isnt a comic but he does a great job of outlining the history of stand up comedy. to early lenny bruce, to the perfection of carlin and pryor, to alt comic andy kuafman and mainstream master jerry seinfeld. this could probably be sold as a history of stand up from the sixties to the eighties and briefly to today’s scene. i definitly picking it up, a great read for any comdey junkie or fan of the genre.
whoo, i am spent, i think ill go take a nap.
zzzzzz
“Dane Cook is God” ?
are these kids sure they wanna be comideans?
no offence, his only good set was “retaliations”
is thier anyway i can listen to the sets? id love to here them…
Hear*
I’m glad you liked the Zoglin book Patrick. I thought it was great. Would you be interested in doing some reviews for the new site? I like your style.
why not, im in college, ive got nothing but time.
What’s up Alonso. Welcome bro.
hey brian, great interview. I wish I had a class like that avaibale to me when I was in school.
My school did have the history of rock and roll, which I always wanted to take by never got into b/c the size was limted and it was so popular.
Hey,
I read in the NY Times today that Irish comedian Tommy Tiernan is having a special on HBO this evening. If anyone here watches it I’d appreciate it if you posted a quick review. Tommy is incredibly popular here, but I’ve always thought that his humour is very Irish and would not be appreciated in other countries, it’ll be interesting to see how he is received.
Cheers,
Brian
yeah i heard abot Tommy Tiernan to, but its not on HBO, its on comedy central. im really looking forward to it tonight. its on at 11pm(east coast).
I’m a bit late….but I listened to Steve Martins ‘Born Standing Up’. Was a great book, I gotta say. Sorry Brian I bought it off Itunes right before you launched the behind the bricks store. Next time.
Any how, good cast yesterday. Where is this college? I missed that. Why don’t Wisconsin University’s have this course. Damnit Wisco!!
Catch you guys later.
Well Comedy Central is even better then, more people can watch it.
Great interview w/ Schimmel on NPR from this past Wednesday:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88109634
i got a question
is it a good idea to somewhat verbaly abuse your audiance, or should that be tabooed
Hey Brian great show again, loved the interview, wish they did things like that in the UK, mind you i’m long past the colledge years……..lol
Brian C, what was the Tommy Tienan special like, i’m a fan of his and although it is very Irish humour its still very funny, was ordering a couple of his DVDs from his site the other day ( yup still DVDs, old habits die hard…. besides, they don’t do it on CD )
Errm can’t think of anything else to contribute so ill lurk until the next time….
I get free downloads to Dennis Miller’s syndicated radio show - too much Right-wing ranting for my liking, but he does have the occasional interesting guest. Recently he interviewed both Robert Schimmel and Tommy Tiernan - though Miller made a prize prick of himself by describing Tiernan as his “favourite new comedian from the British Isles”…
Boy - if there ever was a way to piss an Irish person off…(though Tiernan diplomatically said nothing after Miller’s faux pas).
I personally liked the Tienan show but i missed the first 20 minutes cause my roomates were in the middle of a video game. but i intend to buy the cd, since comedy kept bleeping him and they took out a few bits that i heard samples on itunes. so from what i saw it was really good. oh also Louis CK is on comedy centrals secret stash tonight. im lookin forward to it.
oh, also big news, Bob Ordenkirk and David Cross are returining to HBO, years after they did Mr. Show, one of the greatest comedy shows ever, with a sitcom. i cant wait how these two twist the traditional sitco and hopefully it will last longer than Lucky Louie.
Ricardo, actually British Isles is an acceptable way to describe the location of Ireland, we can get rid of the Queen but unfortunately we haven’t figured out a way to change our geographical location yet. If I were Tommy I’d be more annoyed about being described as a new comedian, he’s been packing out venues for 10 years now!
Got to go now, time for the Australian Grand Prix!
Brian:
I confess I got this notion from another podcast, but it got me wondering: Is there a certain percentage of comics who take pride in telling a joke that is “deep” intellectually and only a handful laugh at it? Sort of like, “Most of you won’t get this because I’m so smart?”
Also, for the next By Request comic, how about either Wanda Sykes or Gary Schandling? I don’t recall either ever being discussed here…
Great question, even if it is from another show
The answer is absolutely yes. I think that’s par for the course with anyone in the art world. There is always a percentage that want to be too smart for the room or too deep to be understood. The best part is that most of the time it’s superficial bullshit.
oh man last night I saw Louis CK’s special Shameless for the first time last nigh with my freinds and it was one of the funniest things ive ever seen. we were rolling around on the floor luaghing so hard that our RA came in thinking we were in pain. man after that show i felt like a smoke and a nap. so good.
Okay, I’d like to share something, but I need to brag a little to do it. For this, I apologize.
So, at Rowan Univ (NJ), I’m part of the SUP (student university programmers), this is our CAB or SAB. Which I recommend to anyone enjoying stand up comedy, since they’re the people who book the comedians coming to each college. You might as well have a say in it. This year we had Nick Swordson in Sept and Pablo Francisco in February. Both of which, I opened for. For Swordson, it was because I won the Rowan Battle of the Comedians, and opening for Swordson was the prize. For Pablo, it was because the opener _he_ brought was completely piss-drunk and I did 8 min in front of Pablo’s opener, which did 5.
With Swordson, it was known that I was going to open for him. I did 5 minutes in front of Swordson’s opener and did decently well. But, it’s hard not to do well in front of 900 people–laughter is contagious.
With Pablo, since I was part of the SUP, I had people coming up to me and asking when Pablo was going to go on–since we started 15 minutes late. People were kinda pissed. Knowing this, and knowing that I am only going to keep them from seeing Pablo for another 8 minutes, then 5 more, I thought I was going to bomb.
Turns out, I did better at the Pablo Francisco show (in front of 300) than the Swordson show. I’ve been trying to figure out why. The material was different, but I don’t think that changed it. I was much MUCH more nervous in front of Swordson, and in front of Pablo, I really didn’t care, since I convinced myself I was going to bomb. While I don’t think a lazy, carefree attitude works all the time, I do think that nervousness kills comedy.
I dunno. Sorry, that was the longest $0.02 ever.
Also, Dr. Chapel was excellent on the show. Though, as much as I like him, I have to hate him. After all, he’s a teacher and therefore hates students and loves failing people for nothing. As will I, when I become a teacher.
my least favorite type of “i’m smart, you’re not” bullshit comes from people who are making references in their stand-up. instead of referencing pop-culture touchstones that the whole audience can understand, they’ll reference 1980s anime or obscure members of the federal reserve board.
then, they have the gall to get mad at the audience for not “getting” what they’re doing. any douchebag can reference obscure material. it’s not “smart” comedy, it’s “exclusionary” comedy.
it’s one thing to misjudge your audience (i saw a guy bomb once because the majority of his act consisted of referencing the “contra code” — a cultural touchstone for people of a certain age — and the audience he was doing so to was approximately 600 years old), it’s another thing to purposefully perplex your audience.
(hey charles, look, we posted at the same time. allow me to brag for you as well — charles is an awesome comic who will one day hopefully give me a spot on his sitcom. right charles? RIGHT!?)
Congrats Charles, that’s awesome. Pablo is a good guy. He’s originally from Casa Grande, AZ and used to come through Tucson every year. I had the pleasure of opening for him a few times. This was when he was first starting to pop and the ego was a little inflated, but he always had the funny to back it up.
On your point about nerves,I think it depends on the comic. I need to have some butterflies before I hit the stage. Keeps me honest. I find that when I’m too calm and relaxed before a show I end up mailing it in. But then again, I’ve got issues.
“Exclusionary” is a perfect description, Jay.
Kid Dave Miller has a new column up at sheckymagazine.com in which he addresses this as one of his pet peeves, along with the First Amendment Defender comic. They’re too often the same person.
I always enjoyed the way Dennis Miller would almost revel in the fact that a lot of his references would fly over people’s heads. Somehow it never seemed pompous. I remember the SNL News Update when he described Leona Helmsley as looking like “Sylvia Plath on a bad day,” and he just let the silence swell.
The good thing about exclusionary comedy is that those people usually don’t get very far. Comedic Darwinism.
Even Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Lewis Black and other political comics are good because they take a sometimes exclusionary topic and relate it to everyone.
Brian– I agree with that, and I still was a little nervous with Pablo, but I think it was just that I wasn’t as nervous that did it. With Swordson, I think I was SO nervous that the material suffered.
A comic that I’ve met–Jay knows him well–Richie Byrne said that “if you ever go into a total robot mode on stage, write new material or stop performing, because by that point, what are ya doing?”
Good call. You definitely need to find the right balance of nerves and confidence. I have definitely gone too far in the other direction and worked myself into a nervous frenzy (i.e. almost every tv audition I’ve ever done) and you’re right it blows. The audience doesn’t want to know that you’re nervous. If it gets to that point you’re in bad shape.
alright this really got on my nerves. first read this:
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080314/COLUMNISTS25/80313090
ok, first off, i am not a big fan of dane cook, but that doesnt mean i hate him, i still go back to retaliation and alot of his jokes i do luagh at and fine funny. in fact like alot of people of my generation i owe him a steak for really getting me into stand up in the first place. but as of now i have moved on.
but thats not the focus on this rant, that was a mini rant to answer the question of my feelings towards mr. cook and to tell people who ask me where to go to find the answer, cuase im tired of argueing about dane cook. whats there to argue about.
but thats not why im writing this, that was simply a prelude/getting something off my chest. my real reason for writing this is when the author of this article says that comedy cant come from a happy place, only from darkness. this seems like a very strange accusation. he even criticisizes cook for not drinking, smoking or doing drugs. Really? becuase he doesnt want topotentially become anothe young corpse, thats bad. anyway, i personally like dark comedy and writing darkly humorous stuff, but thats only becuase thats my personal type of humor. and ive seen numerous comedians who were hysterical and working happily. The whole concept of dark comedy and light comedy seems way to final fantasy for my taste and there in comedy there arnt nearly enough scantly clad high preisteses. so i guess my point is if your going to critique comedy dont do it on a world view attitude, do it on your material, your point of view, and your work ethic. like who you like, dont like who you like. thats the point.
just saw this piece on gallagher’s show in NYC. the author didn’t like him much (the column is called “the hater” after all), but the highlight of the piece is a youtube clip halfway down the page that has captured gallagher dealing with a heckler.
wow. just wow. check it out and then let me know if you think this is even in the ballpark about how you should deal with a heckler…
http://www.avclub.com/content/hater/this_weekend_i_saw_a_relic_smash
Is there any way to recover after someone saying
“First off, asshole, you made my girlfriend cry…”
And, in the article, it says Gallagher was only able to sell 200 tickets? The opener sold 100, AND Gallagher makes fun of the openers, potentially alienating a third of the audience.
Yeah, that’s the main issue with the entire exchange — the ideal heckler response keeps the audience on your side. Gallagher here doesn’t seem remotely interested in keeping the audience on his side… “You were respectful for the opening act and they didn’t even have an act?” Seriously? This sounds more like a schoolteacher reprimanding a naughty class than a comic handling a heckler (believe me, I should know!)
Hey, I just started listening to the show, and I gotta say I love it. My roommate has been doing stand up for years now and he’s been pretty adamant about getting me on stage, I finally went up and had a surprisingly great first show and a subsequent really shitty show. I pretty much had put it in my head not to do it any more, your show has convinced me to try again. Thanks.
One question: What do people think about two (or more) man stand up acts? (Smothers Brothers, Stella, etc..)
That’s a pretty common story. The first time you’re so nervious that you ace it… the second time the gods display their sense of humor and you eat sh*t. Wait until you see what happens the third time (bring spare shorts).
I think the problem with teams is that comedians are so mentally screwed up that they’re to competative to work together for more then a few gigs before somebodies ego gets out of wack, or the other simply beats him to death with the mic stand.
— Dennis the oppionionated
Hey Alvaro, nice to meet yah. as far as comedy teams go i think theres nothing wrong with them. im a fan of stella, particularly Michael Ian Black. lots of graet comedians started in teams, george carlin and george burns. but i think what makes a good comedy team good is that theyre are still funny individually. ive seen a few amatuer comedy teams and you could tell that only one of em was funny, and he wasnt being a straight man.
Hi folks,
Alvaro, I think it’d be great to see and hear a comedy team. The only teams I’m aware of are musical comedy acts. So if you’re able to try it I’d say go for it because you’d really stand out.
Looking forward to next week’s discussion on aging comics. On that point, I was just in Boston and had a chance to see Richard Lewis at the Comedy Connection, George Carlin in concert, or buy a few comedy CDs.
It wasn’t an easy choice, but I’m like Brian (and maybe most of you) and love to play my comedy CDs over and over and get great value for my money. So for the money I would’ve spent on either of those comics, I bought 3 CDs (Jim Gaffigan, Eddie Izzard and Patton Oswalt).
Good call or not?
Cheers.
- Don in Nova Scotia
Here’s a joke I made up for superintelligent people:
Q. What does the world’s smartest duck say?
A. Quark quark.
If you didn’t find that funny, you ain’t superintelligent.
Don, I’m gonna have to say bad call on that… much as I love comedy CDs (and all your choices are bad-ass), how many times do you get to see a legend in concert? Nothing beats a live show and someday you’ll be able to tell your grandkids you got to see Carlin live…
I’m with Jay. I’d pay 5 times the cost of a CD to see a comic I greatly admire. You may be able to listen to a cd over and over but a live show is a once in a lifetime experience. The best part of stand up is that if you go to local comedy club you can see 3 comics for about the price of 1 cd.
And if you hang around the club long enough, you can blow a comic for the price of your self-respect.
On the duos. Maybe there is another reason why there aren’t more duos out there. Economically speaking, (according to brian and other comics on the board) clubs aren’t exactly paying the greatest still, so probably its the fact its really hard to tour with two comics, on the crappy pay from clubs.
D’oh.
Sometimes you know the answer before you ask the question, but you hope against hope that maybe you’re wrong. (On the plus side, I have had the good fortune of seeing George Carlin live on three previous occasions, but that was all during the late ’80s.)
- Don
Sorry everyone, show’s coming out a day late. I had so many clips I wanted to play I forgot there had to be a show to insert them into. My fault.
Great call btw Mike. I can confirm that most clubs will pay a comedy team the exact same amount as they would a single comic to fill a slot.
OK everyone, first off, I’m glad you enjoyed my crashing Brian’s show. I’m sorry it’s taken me so long to get over here and read the comments, but, the day the show aired, I was in New York, and I just returned yesterday. I do have some comments about that trip, but I’m going to save them for another thread. Now, on to the replies to the questions and comments above.
Dennis, my reading list varies every semester, but here’s a sampling of what I most always use:
Paulos, John Allen. “Mathematics and Humor.” The University of Chicago Press, Chicago and London, 1980.
• Klein, Allen. “The Healing Power of Humor: Techniques for Getting Through Loss, Setbacks, Upsets, Disappointments, Difficulties, Trials, Tribulations and All That Not-So-Funny Stuff.” Jeremy P. Tarcher/Putnam, Penguin Putnam Inc., New York, 1989.
• Ziegler, John B. “Use of humour in medical teaching.” Medical Teacher, July 1998, Vol. 20, Issue 4, pp 341-348. Read the Introduction, Definition of Humour and Humor Theories sections.
“Laughter: The Best Medicine.” Penson, Richard T. et. al. The Oncologist. Vol. 10, No. 8, September 2005.
“Using Humor to Help Children with Pain.” Smith, Donna P. Children’s Health Care. Vol. 14, No. 3, Winter 1986.
There’s also a variety of other research articles, conference papers and refereed papers that I include. If you want some copies of them, let me know, and I’ll send them to you, or to anyone else on here, too.
Charles, you are right. I hate you. You fail. And, just to piss you off, your comment about Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert reminds me I also taught a “Dinner and a Book” course on “America: The Book.” I bet you would have liked to take that, too. I’m sorry all of your current classes and teachers suck. That must make you more bitter than denatonium (how’s that for a bit of exclusionary comedy?).
I just realized no one really asked any questions about my class. I guess it isn’t as interesting as Brian thinks it is. Oh well.
One more thing: Patrick AKA Smiley, as the Grammar-Nazi, I have to say, Dude, buy a seventh-grade grammar book. You are making my Nazi brain hurt.
Class dismissed.
Dude, I would so take your class if it were geographically possible. Have you thought about recording the lectures as MP3’s and setting up an RSS feed? I would be glad to help with the technical stuff if you were so inspired.
— Dennis the tech weenie
That is one hell of an exclusion.
Dr. Chapel, is it possible for you to post up the videos of this semester’s class, or last semester’s?
Actually, I have a post-post question for you. Do you think that, by taking a humor class and learning about humor and its effects, the student’s stand up comedy writing becomes smarter, edgier, more tame, etc.?
Also, back in the MSR days, when Brian interviewed you, you talked about humor theories. Do you still use those, or have you changed curriculum?
(Absurdity, Psychoanalytical, and Superiority are the only ones I can remember. What’s that? 3 out of 8. You’re right, I do fail.)
yes grammer nazi i agree. But, this is only the way i talk in type. I cant prove it but ive been told im somwhat articulate in sppech. i have no way of proving it, so lets all just be grateful im not an english major…for now.
no show this week?
read the posts earlier. show has been postponed because brian forgot that in order to post clips, there must be a show to go with it.
In college for all classes is there really gonna be that much reading? if so I’m going to cry…
Dennis,
I’ve thought about making MP3s of the class available; however, there’s a huge visual component to many of the lectures, and I also use a lot of clips and excerpts that, under copyright law, I can use for educational purposes in a classroom, but I can’t repost online.
[b]Charles: That is one hell of an exclusion.[/b]
Yeah, I liked it. It was Dennis Miller-esque.
[b]Charles: Is it possible for you to post up the videos of this semester’s class, or last semester’s?[/b]
I can probably do that. I have permission from the last class to post their videos online. I just need to get off my duff and do it. And find somewhere with enough bandwidth to host them for free. This semester’s class doesn’t do it’s stand-up final until April 21.
[b]Charles: Actually, I have a post-post question for you. Do you think that, by taking a humor class and learning about humor and its effects, the student’s stand up comedy writing becomes smarter, edgier, more tame, etc.?[/b]
That’s a great question. I definitely think that the class makes the students more cognizant of what it takes to succeed in the realm of stand-up comedy. Brian himself commented on the quality of the stand-up routines performed by my students on the DVD he saw. And for all of them, it was their first time ever to perform stand-up.
It by no means makes them tamer. My students had no qualms with ripping me, going blue or anything else when performing in front of me for a great. But, the examples I use in class, plus my repeated emphasis on there being “no limits” on their performance (other than time), I think reinforces that. If anything, my emphasis on free-speech probably makes them edgier.
[b]Charles: Also, back in the MSR days, when Brian interviewed you, you talked about humor theories. Do you still use those, or have you changed curriculum? (Absurdity, Psychoanalytical, and Superiority are the only ones I can remember. What’s that? 3 out of 8. You’re right, I do fail.)[/b]
Yes, I still use those. Ironically, you remembered more of the theories than some of my students do, and you’ve only heard them once, in passing, more than two years ago. That’s amazing. The theories are Absurdity and Incongruity, Truth, Aggression, Superiority, Timing, Comprehension Difficulty (which this thread has been calling Exclusionary), Cognitive Restructuring, Freud’s Psychoanalytical Theory, Raskin’s Theory of Humor, and Relief Theory.
[b]Mike (Not Really): In college for all classes is there really gonna be that much reading? if so I’m going to cry…[/b]
You think that’s a lot of reading? My class is nothing compared to what you’ll have to do in some others.
If you guys keep the questions coming, I’ll keep trying to provide the answers.