Class Is In Session
June 28, 2007 · Print This Article
After a lot of soul searching and several conversations with Jesus, Brian was ready to put out today’s show.
Have you ever wondered if it was possible to learn stand up in a classroom? Of course you have. Brian discusses his experiences with comedy workshops, how to keep from getting ripped off, and the pros and cons of shelling out cash for a lesson in being funny.
Other topics include, why a guy in a monkey suit is always funny, a hack writes a tell all book, how to be a true patriot, and our final listener requested comic of June. Germans love David Hasselhoff!
Email: brianmcomedy@gmail.com
It looks like they removed the Comedy Central comedy class, known as “Crash Course”, from the CC website; the link now re-directs to the home page.
It was essentially short video clips giving very basic elemental advice, what you’d expect from the first two chapters of a “Stand-Up for Dummies” book. Nothing great, nothing harmful.
I downloaded a “comedy course” CD from self-proclaimed comedy coach Neil Lieberman called “How to be Funnier than you Really Are” and I wasn’t really impressed at all. In fact, many of his concepts really angered me with how wrong they were. Thank god I didn’t have to pay for that shite.
Classes might be good for comedians just staring out, but it won’t make you a good comedian. Kinda like bartending courses won’t make you Tom Cruise in Cocktail, but they’ll teach you how to hold the bottle and cut a lemon. A good comedy class will teach you the very bare essentialls to not look like a complete idiot on the stage, but you’ve still gotta bring the funny.
And a big thanks for Showing some love to Norm. If you haven’t seen “Screwed” with him and Dave Chapelle, definately add it to your queue. If you liked Dirty Work, you’ll like Screwed. Any film that features Sherman Hemsley in a thong is okay in my book!
Hey BMo, I was wondering if you ever heard of a comedian called Harry Perry he use to do old radio shows the Harold Perry Show and the Great Gildersleeve. He Cracks me up. I thought you might be interested. he’s funny.
As glad as I am to hear you’ll be talking about Patton Oswalt next week, I wish it was for his upcoming CD/DVD release on July 10 “Werewolves and Lollipops” instead of this awful-looking mouse movie. I didn’t even know he was in that, but seeing the preview a couple months ago made me throw up in my mouth a little.
On the subject of hacks: I don’t think having a stock line that you pass off as improv is hacky at all… all good stand-up should sound completely spontaneous no matter how many times it’s actually been performed. I think most audiences can recognize when the jokes that are being directed at a particular person in the audience are broad enough in application that they probably aren’t off-the-cuff (for instance, aiming a bald joke at a guy versus making fun of the pattern on his shirt).
Ripping other comics’ lines is a little different… I don’t think nabbing the perfect line here or there is enough to warrant something as strong as a “hack” label, but it’s maybe a bit dishonest to pass off someone else’s jokes that you don’t have permission to use as your own. Who knows, maybe an audience member is going to work the next day and saying “I saw the funniest comedian last night” and they drop your name and use the other comic’s line as an example of how funny you are. I’m not going to judge, I’ve never been on a stage and I know if I were I’d probably do just about anything to get a laugh, but I also think I’d feel a little uncomfortable about having done it later.
As for this other hack who used to rip off entire sets… not even the same ballpark, man. What a total piece of shit. I hope no one buys his weak ass book, either.
Thanks for the input Dave. I happen to agree with you. There are some stock lines that are so old they can’t be traced back to anyone in particular (ex. I don’t come to your job and…) I know I should be better than to use shit like that, but sometimes it just works.
I started out in stand-up doing a workshop offered in Dallas (Improv in Addison) by Dean Lewis. I found it very helpful to find out how to craft bits and getting a non-threatening shot at being on stage and honest feedback.
I also met others who were starting out - which was handy for going to open mic after open mic, and writing together.
I felt my class experience was very positive, overall.
I agree that if it is an old school stock line it is fine, but how can you take pride in getting a laugh from something you didn’t come up with? If it is something original that you have only heard from one comedian I don’t think it should be repeated. I find when discussing hacks, such as Carlos Mencia or Dane Cook, the people who make the argument that it doesn’t matter if they stole it or not if they perform it better are the people who have never done stand-up and don’t know how difficult it is to get polished material. The public is very naive about the process of writing material. Shows like LCS don’t help by making it look like average joe’s are coming up off the street and performing. I’m still pretty new to stand-up(about 7 months) but I would feel sick to my stomach if I heard that someone was stealing my material that I have worked very hard on.
Also I was wondering what everyones opinion on who the most over-rated comedians in the country are. Of course Dane Cook and Carlos Mencia but I also think Mitch Fatel. All of my friends love him and I just don’t get it.
Great call Cody. The rush I get from stand up is knowing that a room full of strangers are relating to my thoughts and words and laughing. How can you get the same feeling from stolen material? I honestly believe that hacks are completely delusional. They have convinced themselves that they really did come up with the material. How could they live with themselves otherwise.
As for Fatel, the jury is out for me. I think he can be really funny at times, but then I come back to the fact that he’s a grown man pretending to be retarded.
There is no better comedy class than a stage and a microphone. I know guys who have done comedy classes before ever going onstage, who have gone onstage for awhile and then tried out a comedy class, and I know guys who have never been to a class before (I’m one of them, although I did buy “The Comedy Bible” a year ago…it had better networking info than comedy advice). I’m sure there are people who would benefit from comedy classes, but working on a stage in front of “classmates” and then going up once at the end of a six-week course doesn’t seem as effective to me as going up a couple times a month. I started out dry, most of the guys who I’m coming up with in Des Moines started out dry as well. Just my opinion.
The Omaha guy should go to either Minneapolis, Des Moines, Chicago, or Kansas City. Des Moines has an amazing support system; guys set up gigs with regular monthly shows and they periodically invite comics to perform in them. I know there’s a ton of talent in Minneapolis, and friends of mine say there’s good stage time in Kansas City. Chicago’s more of a sketch town, but I’ve performed there and there are some really funny guys.
Welcome to the boards Jane and thanks for the input. You made a huge point that I didn’t even consider. When most comics start the open mic system, they go at it alone. It’s a huge advantage having a built in support system when you start the process. I hope you stick around the site. It could use a woman’s touch.
Hello guys,
I am back and have punished my liver fairly severely. There is nothing like sitting on the beach day after day drinking beer from sun-up to sun-down. The amount consumed was 3-18 packs of cans and 5 6-packs of bottles over 8 days.
Fortunately the only injuries were the sunburn to my pasty torso and bruised feet from stepping on shells occasionally.
I met a guy who claimed to work with a guy that claimed to have had sex with every kind of farm animal. I was speechless, not only to the fact that someone would do that, much less admit it. All I could say was,”Those poor chickens.”
I did spread the word of Behind the bricks to a few relatives who seemed very interested….
Anywho, glad to be back and at the same time I am not.
Welcome back Snap. Sounds like you shaved a few years off your life, but who cares, those are the boring years. Thanks for spreading the BTB. I’m happy to talk about beastiality if it means locking down a few new listeners. I am a whore first and foremost.
By the way. A glaring omission from the female comics showcase we did a few months ago was Maria Bamford. I just caught her new special last night, and you’d be hard pressed to find a comic of either gender tackling social issues in a funnier manner than she has. Especially the way she deals with feminism by satirizing the way some women act in society. Brilliant.
Wild horses could not drag me away. Well, physically they could but I’m really enjoying myself here and thanks for the great podcasts.
Good advice on classes Brian,
1) another point you also could have mentioned is that are there any good books on stand up comedy? Joel brought this point up and I’m glad he did. I notice theres lots of books on the market but like anything, some will be useful and some will be crap.
Anyone have any recommendations?
But I do agree that the best class is getting up and doing it!
2) I was thinking a good topic to talk about is topical comeidians! You could talk about people like David Letterman and Bill Maher on their shows and people like lewis black who incorporate it in their act. What’s the trick to doing topical stand up? Is it harder or easier than normal stand up? Do topical comics still stand the test of time? (I think they do, Mort Sahl’s stand up on nixon is hilarious!) Are audiences receptive to topical stand up?
3) Another thought I was having recently is the reason comics release CDs. How come some realse lots of albums and some might only have one……or even just a few CCP sessions? I was talking to Steve McGrew at the Edniburgh festival in 2006 who has been a comic since the 1980s and he has only one major album which was realised in 1999. Joe Rogan has only recently realised his second stand up album, despite the fact that he says his first love is comedy. (I’m not bitter, I love Rogan!) Gilbert Gottfried, I think, has only just realised his FIRST album!
How come this happens? Surely comics want to leave a big body of work behind. And surely if you release your work you have in a sense ‘patented’ it meaning it won’t get stolen.
Do comics release albums to make money, or to promote themselves and look professional? And how do you decide what material gets put in a CD?
3) I’ve just bought the DVD of The Aristocrats, directed by Penn Jillette and Paul Provenza and it is hilarious….not stand up per se but it’s got all your favourites in. Highly recommended! Anyone got a good Aristocrat story?
Gilbert Gottfired’s version is hilarious. Check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw10xa_xtNg
Some good brit comics to check out and ones who get my vote
1) Stewart Lee. He was the man behind the controvesial Jerry Springer: The Opera but is an excellent, dry, political comic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtBQhrFhock
2) Mark Thomas. Another political comic. Very left wing and very funny. If there’s a protest in Britain, he’s usually at the front of the crowd. Had an hilarious tv show at the end of the 1990s and beginning of the 2000s (I think)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAYQU3bORJs
3) Carey Marx. Shocking and hilarious comic. In this video, he uses the word cunt about 15 secs into a set in front of lots of kids. My kinda guy!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8468239454052605722
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British comedy is a bit weird really. I think as a whole we’re a bunch of very witty people with often really sick senses of humor!! Although we’re much smaller as a country than the US, we’ve still got so many different regions where we all take the piss out of each other. I’m from the North East of England, which is kind of like the south of the USA. We’re the rednecks and further south is the more posh, sophisticated part……but it’s far less fun!
Another interesting thing is that we’re a haven for foreign comics including americans, canadians and austrailians. Bill Hicks did sold out theatre tours here, Doug stanhope has been the edinburgh fringe a few times and come away with armfuls of awards.
Some might say this is because we’re receptive and accept many different cultures. Others might say it’s becuase we like laughing at your funny accents………………..
Some top foreign comics working in the UK are:
1) Rich Hall. Deadpan, miserable and funny as fuck. Supposively, he is the inspiration, looks and manner, for Moe the Bartender from the Simpsons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi1E7QLWy-w
2) Glenn Wool. Aboslutely mad comic from Canada. Doug Stanhope calls him the best comic working in the UK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXojj06KSPo
3) Steve Hughes. Heavy metal lover from Austrailia. Kicking right wing arse up and down the country with his long haired antics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOLYX4ESNrI
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I highly recommend the book “Comic Insights” by Franklin Ajaye. Not so much for the first few chapters which go through the process of writing and performing but for the countless number of quality interviews with great comedians. The author asks all the right questions in his interviews and you can get a lot from it. Also for pleasure reading and not so much to learn “I Killed” is a great book just to hear many comedians best stories from the road.
Interesting question with topical comedians that you see on Late Night shows, but I’ve always been under the impression that you won’t see that kind of comedy on the road because late night shows have a staff of writers working with the host to get that topical material nightly. Am I correct about this?
Thanks cody, those books sound cool…I love reading and hearing comics stories.
Great questions Nick. Definitely topics for future shows. (Thank God because I was running low).
No problem Brian, plenty more where that came from.
Even if you run out of topics just give us weekly updates of ‘Brian and His Lady Try for a Baby.’
It’s funny to hear you sweat!! I know what it’s like though, my ex was scary about babies……just keep checking the condoms for tiny pin-pricked holes…………………………
as far as stealing goes my personal philosophy is that joke theives are scum and shoud be forced to work in utah for the rest of there life. but when it comes to stock lines for hecklers i think that’s ok. i myself have used this george carlin line several time to handle hecklers. here it is, “Hey asshole, are you going to keep talking or are you going to shut up like the punk loser that you are. and if you talk again were going to find you and throw you out in the street with your mother and im fucking her in the ass every night anyway.” I love that line.
I’ve heard that Zach Gafanafolis (or whatever) actually brings hecklers up on stage and interviews them on why they’re an asshole. Is this true? That’s awesome!
Yea he gets bored with his material so he strays from it a lot by doing crowd work. I’m actually driving to Chicago on Friday to see him live. He is by far my favorite comedian.
Nick - about books - I’ve purchased (and subsequently read) over a dozen comedy books in my quest to learn (and then do). Here are my faves, and why:
The Comedy Bible - Judy Carter
I found this really helpful as a beginner. It helped me get some ideas down and gave me a good start in developing Topics and Premises. I would say this a MUST for a novice who wants a good start/foundation on the writing part. There are also a number of good tips in the book for n00bs. $10.20 on Amazon.
Sandi C. Shore’s Secrets to Standup Success: A Complete Step-by-Step Workbook - Sandi C. Shore
This book was given to me by a friend when he found out I was going to venture into stand-up. It’s good in a different way from Carter’s book in that there are many many more exercises - and they are much more detailed and lined out. Each exercise feeds into the next. Again, a great book for a beginner and for getting a good grasp on writing. $13.49 on Amazon.
Comic Insights - Franklyn Ajaye
Cody was right - good info, great interviews. Worth a read. $12.89 on Amazon.
Comedy Writing Workbook - Gene Perret
Frankly, all of Gene’s books have been fantastic. But this one, I use EVERY DAY. The book is a set of exercises meant to help you write. Not necessarily stand-up material, but comedy material. Most of the exercises don’t end up becoming bits for me, but they do keep me writing, and once I get going, the ideas start to flow. I find that I’m extremely lazy when it comes to writing, and when I don’t have any ideas, I go to Mr. Perret’s book and do an exercise. I then find a tidbit of something I wrote or thought or did during the exercise that leads to a premise, topic or bits. I also have written a number of tags based on ideas that have come from these exercises. If you are wanting to write more/better or just get a start on doing more writing, do buy this book. $28.00 on Amazon.
Great Comedians Talk About Comedy - Larry WIlde, Woody Allen, Milton Berle, et al.
While not an instruction manual, this book is cool to me for the same reason as Comic Insights - it comes from comics - all types of comics and gives their biographies and other information. It’s just really interesting - most of the information is on comics that were before the interweb, it’s just a neat, informational read. $35.00 on Amazon.
Again, I own and have read just about every availble book on stand-up comedy - and the rest, well - I give them a general “Meh”. They say a lot of what these other books I have pointed out say, but usually in not quite as good of a manner.
TOPIC IDEA: Physical Comedy/Good Physical Comics… cause damn I loves me a good act-out or 12 (Brian Regan, anyone?).
Great Comedians Talk About Comedy was a decent book. It seemed almost outdated(B/c it is an old book) and didn’t focus on Standup as much as I would have liked. A lot of interviews with older comics that did vaudeville. Comic Insights is basically a more updated version of GCTAC and more helpful to those who only want to hear about standup. Good to get a sense of comedy history though so I recommend, but I really didn’t get much from it. I would love to hear from anyone with book recommendations about the business aspect of comedy.
Thanks for that man, those sound great!
Happy 4th July to all my American chums……hope you still appriciate how we let you win all those years ago!
Keep it up guys. We’re talking about comedy books for next week’s show. A few more posts and I’ll officially have to fo no research.
I want to call in with a joke thing that I wrote, a bit nervous though, il try soon.
Give it a shot Ari. You can always use a screenname if you’re nervous. And keep in mind, Only one other person has had the guts to call in their own original joke since we’ve started the show. So no matter how it goes, you’d still be one of the few with the balls to step up.