A Rat Or A Sellout?
July 16, 2007 · Print This Article
Another week has passed in the world of comedy and the Ted Koppel of stand up is here to report it.
Today’s topic is books, from How To’s to biographies, conspiracy theories to photo exposes, do you care what comics have to say when you are in your living room and sober?
Listener topics include, paying for the funny, getting a workout with youor “best friend”, the state of stand up across the pond, and why you should never invite an Iowan to a birthday party.
Email: brianmcomedy@gmail.com
Brian - I have to disagree with you on Judy’s book - well, kind of disagree…
First, I AGREE if you are coming at it from “I will read this book and be a stand-up comic” - then no, it won’t work. It won’t work any more than a musician learning to read music. You can read music, but not be able to actually play it. You can say all day long - A, C, B, D, A, G… but unless you can play or sing the music, it doesn’t matter. BUT, every great musician I have ever known knows how to read music.
Reading music doesn’t make them the great musician they are - it’s how they communicate the music they write, how they improvise, how they use their emotions and their skills… but they have to know how to read music.
I DISAGREE with you in that the book has nothing to offer to new comics. I had no idea the makeup of a joke. I didn’t know what a topic, premise, setup, punch or tag was - at least not in those terms. Judy’s book, more than any other, helped me learn about the pieces of a joke or bit. And you know what, it has worked, at least for me.
I had to be careful not to get too formulaic in my writing after I got through some of the baby steps - but the best jokes I’ve written - and really, the best jokes I’ve heard, have really been based on the things I learned. And I learned those things from Judy’s book.
Do I think there are other ways to learn these concepts? Yes. Do you need to buy a book? No.
My last comment about this is that I do web development full time - I’ve enjoyed a modicum of success, working on projects for Pepsi, The US Air Force, Blockbuster, etc… and I learned everything I’ve needed to know to do this work by being self-taught. I didn’t take classes, I didn’t read books - I just did it and learned from the experience. But comedy, well, it’s the exception for me - I learned the nuts and bolts of comedy from a book (and a workshop/class)… and for me, it worked. While I’d not yet say I have had a modicum of success with comedy - but I’d like to think I’m on my way.
Ok, I’m off of my soapbox now.
Another good show. Thank you.
Oh and was Jimmy Carr the host of a TV show? I think it was Comedy Central or something… it was a ridiculous show… his voice just sounded familiar.
Yes, Jimmy Carr hosted a bizarre Comedy Central game show that unfortunately didn’t last long. I can’t remember the details, but the game was weak. His dry comedy while hosting was hysterical to me, but doesn’t seem to favor the American palate.
Oh yeah! That was a show called Distraction where contestants were asked elementary school questions while being distracted in annoying ways….kinda like “Are you Smarter Than a Fifth Grader” except Jeff Foxworthy is much more annoying.
Sina.
In refrence to Oswalt I believe He is in no way a sell out. He was on conan a week ago promoting his movie and he barely talked about it. he basicilly did bits from his new album. He is awesome. Oh yeah aparently there was another stand up voicing that movie, Jeanene Garfolo.
Jongleurs!!!! Pretty big comedy chain (16 clubs). It also has a regular half hour TV show on Paramount comedy showcasing comics who perform there. Nice one Brian; thought you’d be playing in some seedy pub in Soho.
This is totally off topic, but I thought I would share with you guys something that happened to me recently on vacation.
2 weekends ago we, meaning the family, headed up to Gatlinburg / Pigeon Forge for 4 days. This was fun but there was a story worthy of telling
you guys, and even the listeners, should you deem it worthy.
Upon our last night in Pigeon Forge we went to the
Dinner Theater show, Dixie Stampede. Where 10 years
ago my wife and I attended on our Honeymoon. When we
were first there we were selected from the audience to
participate in a horse race, a stick horse race. We
won and got medals and a to go box for the food we didn’t get to eat because we were the entertainment. Anywhoo back to
2007, We were randomly asked to participate again, we
thought for sure my mother-in-law had told them, but
she hadn’t, and they wouldn’t let me do it in sandals,
nor barefoot (not that I was too excited about doing
it barefoot.). The odds of that happening is pretty
low, not running barefoot in horse manure, but being picked at random 10 years apart.
So the show begins, and it’s what I expected, except
there is like a Downs syndrome Tour group attending
this event, probably like 50 or 60 of them. I will fore warn you, I can be an asshole.
The horses are running, the cow boys and girls (who
ironically are mainly Ukranian) are doing their thing
and all is right with the redneck world. About ¾
of the way through the show, I get hit in the back of
the head with a straw wrapper. I glance back and see a
wrapper on the floor behind me in my peripheral, and am
o.k. with it. So, some kids were playing around and
there was a “loose wrapper†I chuckled. Then I got hit
a second time, and a third. Now I am starting to get
aggravated. I turn and look down, no joke there are no
less than 30 straws on the fucking floor, still in
their wrapper. I glance up and asshole number one is
fortunately out of straws, I can’t see him, but am able to see the condiment holder. After a few minutes, I feel
something else plink off of the top of my head. It was
a wrapped toothpick. Followed by 50 goddamned
toothpicks. Now my little girl is getting hit with
them also, I turn and stare when the lights are up
briefly and stare at a guy who “eyeballs†in the
direction of the culprit. I grin and nod to thank him, and look to
the direction to which I see someone with their head
down, hiding from view.
Now I am on a mission to turn every 10 seconds to
throw him off, and to try and make eye contact. When I
did this the first time, he slammed his head down so
hard his plate flipped chicken on his head. I am
satisfied for two reasons now, he is out of straws and
toothpicks, and he got chicken skin on his head. So I
laughed and said out loud in his direction, “ enjoy
the chicken skin cock sucker!†To which he responded
with pelting me with sugar packets and lemon packets, when I wasn’t looking.
As the show ended, the house lights came up, I turned and said firmly, “Hey, Asshole, look at me
you chickenshit!†to which Corky raised his head. That
is right, he had downs syndrome. For some reason that
made it all o.k. to me. Not the whole calling him a
cocksucker, but knowing he had the mind of a 4 year
old and knowing now that now I had a funny story.
Believe me Nick, if I only worked the club because the headliner got me the spot. If it were up to be to book my own show, I would have done an open mic in a pub in front of 6 people with a soccer game on the tv behind me.
Listening now… Can’t help but agree about Month Python. I can’t get into anything they did. It’s probably just me but it seems like the majority of Monty Python fans also into Sci-Fi, Japanese “manga” and/or Civil War reenactments.
On British stand-up; a friend of mine left a Billy Connolly CD in my car a few years ago and never got it back. Wish I could remember exactly what CD it was but it doesn’t really matter because all of his work is pretty damned good.
Another great show, Brian! Thank you and please keep them coming.
hahaha…I just got to listen to this new podcast. As always, great job Brian…I think I just need to quit drinking and taking Xanax at night because that’s what leads to my dumb ramblings and why all my friends regret giving me their numbers.
I don’t remember calling you at all. I’m a complete black out drunk. But thanks for posting it.
I love you long time. See you in September.
Sina.
I’ve admitted to Patton Oswalt being my favorite comic here before so I hope I don’t get labeled as an apologist, but I think this rat movie isn’t a sellout move at all. Oswalt works in the moviemaking industry doing everything from crappy tv (King of Queens) to punch-up on bad movies, and I’ve never heard him say he’s about anything else. Like Brian says, he’s a big nerd and has his fingers in a bunch of other projects as well, including writing comics and doing other cartoon voice work for a recently failed pilot on the SF Channel based on a comic book. This movie certainly looks terrible to me and you couldn’t pay me to see it, but I’m not gonna jump all over the guy’s shit for taking a starring role in a movie he probably thinks is awesome (I’ve heard him be a big supporter of stuff like Pixar in interviews well before he signed on for this movie).
Brian (and everyone else), I’d love to hear your thoughts on Werewolves and Lollipops, Oswalt’s new stand-up album that was released at about the same time as the movie. My thoughts… not as great as Feelin’ Kinda Patton, but that doesn’t mean it’s not absolutely hysterical… in fact, the only bits that didn’t have me pissing my pants laughing was a stretch of 3-4 tracks in the middle that happened to be material I’d heard before being worked out in the Comedians of Comedy. The first 10 minutes or so are especially strong, and it’s gold to hear him take down some idiot heckler.
Wow, there were a lot of things I wanted to talk about from today’s podcast.
Patton Oswald absolutely did not sell out by doing this movie. First off, this is a guy who is probably most recognizable to people as the geeky friend on King of Queens. And while I am not all that familiar with his comedy (I watched the Comedians of Comedy movie, but I haven’t seen him too much) this is a guy who does dirty jokes, but he’s not doing angry material and he has talked about how much he loves cartoons. On top of that, I’ve heard the movie is actually pretty funny (haven’t seen it but I’ll probably get it on netflix).
Then British comedy. I am typically not a huge fan. And by that I mean that I have heard so little of it that I am overly prejudiced by one experience, and that experience would be The Office. If I had only seen the British version I would probably think it wasn’t exactly my thing but that it had flashes of brilliance. Seeing the American version to me showed what could be done with it by taking a different angle on the same story. To me by adding a little bit more heart to the main character completely transformed the show. The original version, to me, was too mean spirited at parts and the dirty jokes drew their humor from just being dirty rather than from being truly funny. I actually have read that a lot of the differences come from cultural differences based on the fact that Americans tend to like to root for the underdog whereas the British tend to prefer humor that shows people acting above their station being put in their place. How’s that for sweeping generalizations about an entire culture. What do you all think about the two versions of the show?
And there was one more thing I forgot. I know you put this in a different category, but what about comedic writers, do you find them entertaining? I can remember reading Dave Barry’s books in early high school and crying at parts that I thought were so funny. Now when I re-read it I barely crack a smile. I think that the humor that I am into now just does not translate into writing as well because it is mostly about delivery. What do you all think?
Good call on comedy writers. It’s a whole different art form than stand up, and in a lot of ways it’s harder. I’ll definitely talk about this on an upcoming show.
Dave Barry is really, painfully formulaic. I loved him in high school too, but now I can see all of the jokes coming. And they do not make me laugh anymore.
Oh, Patton’s new CD is really funny.
And like everything Pixar has done Ratatouille is awesome!
I agree with you kfreeze. Dave Barry was funny in the same way those lame ’80s family sitcoms were funny, we didn’t know better. His humor definitely doesn’t hold up. I think David Sedaris is the only humor writer with a trully fresh and hilarious perspective right now.
I have no problem with Patton doing a Disney movie. In fact I find it quite exciting for only one great reason. Pretty soon there will be children out there looking for or asking for more things with Patton Oswald in it and some soccer mom is going to find his feeling Kinda Patton CD, scarring the Ritalin controlled children for life.
I’m just waiting for those news reports
I hope you’re not talking about Full House…because there has never been a better show.
Sina.
Patton’s new CD I thought was really, really funny. The DVD included was also great. It was interesting to see the evolution of some of the jokes from the DVD set to the CD set (whch was recorded later).
I personaly am a big fan of British comedy from the early pre-python stuff like At Last the 1948 Show to the Pythons to more modern stuff like Black Books. I guess its all the sarcasm, irony and sheer absurdity of most of it.
Keep it up Brian. I love this podcast. I’m glad I stumbled upon it. (I think it was metioned on the Sound of Young America messagebaord.
Matt
Thanks Matt. Welcome to the family. I actually haven’t had a chance to check out the Patton dvd yet, but now I’m excited to do so. I love seeing jokes evolve as well.
Brian,
I gotta agree with you on comics who publish verbatim transcripts of their standup routing, and call it a book … but with one exception.
Dennis Miller’s Rants (I think theres 3 or 4 volumes now). I don’t know if it’s because I have time to digest all the arcane references he makes, or if because at one-rant-per-page, those books make a great bathroom-reader … but I love those books.
If I had a nickle for every time the wife had to ask through the bathroom door “What are you giggling at in there? … What are you doing?” …
Pray4Snow
Good call snow. I may have to pick those up. I’m always looking for a good toilet laugh. Welcome to the family.
Brian-first off I just want to say I love your show. I am a beginning comic and I find it very insightful and entertaining.
I know this show was from almost 2 months ago, but I’ve just started listening and I’m checking out the archived shows as I go. I also have to agree/disagree with you about “The Comedy Bible.” I agree that it’s not useful in the fact that it, like every other book on the planet, cannot teach you how to be funny. Being funny is a natural talent and you either have it or you don’t. However, I did find it extremely helpful in the very beginning stages of joke/material writing. It can be very formulaic at times and should definately not be taken as scripture, but when you look at alot of the jokes of successful comics most can be boiled down to this formula. Will it make you groundbreaking or take you to new heights of originality? No, but it’s definately better for people who want to do an open mike than to just go up there and wing it. Workshops are probably better to learn from, but I always hated group assignments in school.
So there’s my two cents. After reading my above diatribe I realize it’s pretty much all the same shit Amelia said, but whatever. Keep the show’s coming and thank you.
Did anyone else find what Lavelle Crawford did in the “one liner” contest completely reprehensible? First he essentially repeated one of Gerry Dee’s jokes 10 seconds after he heard it, the he did an Alonzo Boden joke on the fucking show that made him famous! Too bad Reep has no shot to win because I lost all respect for Lavelle.
Hey Brian
Loved the bit on how to comedy books. You mentioned Stand Up For Dummies. I though i had every how-to book stand-up, but have never heard of this and can’t find it on the web or amazon. Did you mean Comedy Writing For Idiots instead maybe?
BTW - regarding Judy Carter, I recieved an e-mail today about her new product - Comedy Career In A Box - “a 4 dvd set with six hours of instruction and a fully-interactive workbook” - all yours for $179. Think I may have to pass on that one…
Brian,
You’re just another dumbass who subscribes to the bumper sticker mentality that plagues our country.
I know a lot of people who began using Judy Carter’s books as well as books from other authors. And those people work in television now. What do you do?
Learn to read. Make an effort to get better. Get out of your bedroom and go do some shows.
Wow Bill that was completely random. I think all of us are now dumber from having to read that. Don’t be a dumb whore on the message boards.
First off Bill, thanks for listening. Not really sure where you’re coming from. What the hell is a bumper sticker mentality? If it involves breaking for fat chicks, count me in!
I find it odd that you’re telling me to “go do some shows”, because that’s exactly what I told people to do. Instead of reading about how you’re supposed to do comedy, get out there and do it.
All in all great first post. I hope you chime in again. In the meantime I’ll go learn to read. Maybe I’ll start with bumper stickers…